# Bars with "No White T Shirt" policy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062 "2011-06-11T02:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/1 "2011-06-11T02:48:39Z")
In the second Season 2 episode of HBO’s “Treme” you can see a sign outside a New Orleans bar that says No “Loitering, Weapons, Drugs, Outside Drinks” (obvious potential problems), “Bandanas” (OK, presumably gang signs), or “White T-Shirts”. The bar in the show is far from an upscale club that might have a fancy dress code, more like a working class neighborhood dive - why would it have a ban on white T-Shirts? Another gang thing? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/2 "2011-06-11T03:26:45Z")
Probably more of a anti-white trash thing than a gang thing. Hillbillies in that region might be prone to walking around in wife beaters and white undershirts because they are the thinnest and cheapest shirt you can buy and they keep you the coolest. It’s probably just a common enough thing that the place feels the need to specify it as taboo in order to maintain some minimal semblance of propriety. It’s basically one step beyond “no shoes, no shirt, no service”, white undershirts being barely a step ahead of shirtless. ETA: That said, it’s very possible that white T-shirts are a gang symbol in some places. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/3 "2011-06-11T03:30:25Z")
In Los Angeles, white T-shirts are often worn by gang members, especially Latinos. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/4 "2011-06-11T03:43:52Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > ETA: That said, it’s very possible that white T-shirts are a gang symbol in some places. > [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > In Los Angeles, white T-shirts are often worn by gang members, especially Latinos. Definitely–it’s like a uniform. I suppose it’s the same in New Orleans. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/5 "2011-06-11T04:08:52Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > In Los Angeles, white T-shirts are often worn by gang members, especially Latinos. Baggy white tee-shirts are how you keep track of gang members on [Southland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southland_(TV_series)). ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/6 "2011-06-11T04:21:19Z")
Maybe they’re just sick of the song _Hey There, Delilah_. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/7 "2011-06-11T04:27:27Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Maybe they’re just sick of the song _Hey There, Delilah_. Offer them [this instead](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxScTbIUvoA). ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/8 "2011-06-11T04:41:33Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Offer them [this instead](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxScTbIUvoA). I want to hear [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12562167&postcount=10) performed. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/9 "2011-06-11T04:50:49Z")
A bar here in Chicago (near Howard and Western) has a “No White T-Shirts” rule. It’s due to its popularity amongst hoodlums and gang members. My (perhaps un-PC) theory on the style choice is that us white folks have enough trouble telling random African Americans apart, and even more trouble if they’re all dressed the same. Makes it difficult to finger someone for a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/10 "2011-06-11T05:49:19Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > In Los Angeles, white T-shirts are often worn by gang members, especially Latinos. Yeah, I remember seeing that white T-shirt ban somewhere, maybe in town here. I was quite surprised by it. Fortunately, I don’t own a blank T-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/11 "2011-06-11T06:01:08Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > My (perhaps un-PC) theory on the style choice is that us white folks have enough trouble telling random African Americans apart, and even more trouble if they’re all dressed the same. Makes it difficult to finger someone for a crime. There are plenty of people who believe such policies are designed to keep African Americans out of bars. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/12 "2011-06-12T01:09:10Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > There are plenty of people who believe such policies are designed to keep African Americans out of bars. :dubious: How so? Presumably they own more clothing than just white t-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/13 "2011-06-12T01:34:06Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > My (perhaps un-PC) theory on the style choice is that us white folks have enough trouble telling random African Americans apart, and even more trouble if they’re all dressed the same. Makes it difficult to finger someone for a crime. Back when I was still teaching (in an alternative public high school, with a pretty significant population of kids with various gang affiliations, some serious, some more peripheral) we once had a teachers workshop on gang prevention put on by the local cops and a couple of national experts on street gangs, and it was mentioned that by dressing all the same, the bangers were hoping to make it virtually impossible for any random witnesses to make a positive identification on a particular suspect. Back then, the wannabe gangsters around here were mostly wearing assorted NBA/NFL/MLB jerseys, (obviously, the different teams would identify the various crews the little shits were claiming) not white T-shirts, but I imagine that it’s the same principle. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/14 "2011-06-12T01:39:52Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > My (perhaps un-PC) theory on the style choice is that us white folks have enough trouble telling random African Americans apart, and even more trouble if they’re all dressed the same. Makes it difficult to finger someone for a crime. Also, the t-shirts are long and baggy because it makes it more difficult to describe the build of the person wearing it, unless they’re obviously obese. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/15 "2011-06-12T02:03:10Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :dubious: How so? Presumably they own more clothing than just white t-shirts. Well, if you know that the group you want to discriminate against wears the same thing, then you can ban it, and anyone who shows up looking to get in suddenly can’t. Sure, they could go change, but odds are they just go to another bar. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/16 "2011-06-12T03:07:07Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > There are plenty of people who believe such policies are designed to keep African Americans out of bars. I have no doubt that the policies are at least partially designed to keep those African Americans _who insist on wearing white T-shirts_ out of the establishments. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/17 "2011-06-12T04:47:01Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :dubious: How so? Presumably they own more clothing than just white t-shirts. Most people probably aren’t going to return home to change clothing in order to comply with the dress code. It’s really a fantastic way to get around anti-discrimination laws. Pick a style of clothing that a particular demographic group in your area wears and ban it from your establishment. Hey, you’re not discriminating against any particular race, ethnic group or religion you’re just establishing a dress code. > [@Gary T](#): > > I have no doubt that the policies are at least partially designed to keep those African Americans who insist on wearing white T-shirts out of the establishments. That’s entirely possible however there’s evidence that some bar owners have policies designed to keep African Americans out. Google bar dress code discrimination and some articles will pop up. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/18 "2011-06-12T05:12:58Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > That’s entirely possible however there’s evidence that some bar owners have policies designed to keep African Americans out. Google bar dress code discrimination and some articles will pop up. Yes, there’s been some to-do about that here in Kansas City, particularly with dress codes being more rigorously enforced with black folks than with whites. Another area of concern was codes prohibiting styles popular with young blacks. My thought is, if there’s a code barring the white T-shirts but not also barring the other styles, then the intent is to keep out troublemakers rather than keep out blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/19 "2011-06-12T05:16:27Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Also, the t-shirts are long and baggy because it makes it more difficult to describe the build of the person wearing it, unless they’re obviously obese. And to presumably make it possible to carry a firearm or other weapon unnoticed. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062/20 "2011-06-12T05:47:48Z")
[My thread on the same topic.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585363) A couple of examples in the op. It’s not hard to find a bar with a dress code that excludes fashion typically associated with Black people. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-with-no-white-t-shirt-policy/585062.md?page=2)