# Bartender ethics 2, a pregnant woman walks into a bar... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261 "2016-05-08T01:35:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/1 "2016-05-08T01:35:37Z")
So apparently if you’re a bartender in New York State it’s [illegal to refuse to serve](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/agency-bars-ban-pregnant-women-refuse-drinks-38927422) a pregnant woman alcohol; _“Judgments and stereotypes about how pregnant individuals should behave, their physical capabilities and what is or is not healthy for a fetus are pervasive in our society and cannot be used as pretext for unlawful discriminatory decisions”_ So here’s the scenario, you’re tending bar in a state where it’s not illegal to refuse service. A pregnant woman (let’s say entering the third trimester and obviously pregnant enters and orders a drink. Do you serve her? ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/2 "2016-05-08T02:08:03Z")
You don’t know her facts. Perhaps she just found out the fetus is dead and she’s trying to get up the nerve to fight the GOPs bizarre restrictions on abortion so she doesn’t have to waddle around with a rotting dead body in her uterus for 4 months. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/3 "2016-05-08T02:18:32Z")
Of course I do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/4 "2016-05-08T02:25:45Z")
I would serve her whatever she ordered. It’s not my business. When I entered my third trimester my OB actually suggested a glass of wine every other day or half a glass every day. I had high blood pressure and he said that was better for me than any hbp medications he could prescribe. At one point, when I was huge, I was at our local Irish pub with my husband and did not order beer. The bar owner brought me a half pint of Guinness on the house. I happily drank it. The half pint of Guinness had less alcohol than the glass of wine the doctor recommended. The main reason we say “no alcohol while pregnant” is because most people don’t understand the word “moderation”. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/5 "2016-05-08T03:21:48Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Perhaps she just found out the fetus is dead and she’s trying to get up the nerve to fight the GOPs bizarre restrictions on abortion so she doesn’t have to waddle around with a rotting dead body in her uterus for 4 months. What states have laws that would cause this scenario? I’m not aware of any legislature that involve removing a fetus that is already dead, though bringing it up does seem to be a common pro-choice boogyman. The closest I could find was [this](http://www.alternet.org/comments/news-amp-politics/texas-republican-wants-women-carry-deceased-fetuses-full-term#disqus_thread), which despite the headline is about babies who are \*likely to die \*of their defects after birth, not already dead fetuses…which makes sense because carrying a dead fetus can cause the mother to get sepsis. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/6 "2016-05-08T03:29:08Z")
We have 2 fascists who think they have the right - an absolute, moral right - to decide what another person can do with their body. They don’t. I don’t. The OP does not. The Pope does not. The Other Pope sure as Hell doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/7 "2016-05-08T04:04:46Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > We have 2 fascists who think they have the right - an absolute, moral right - to decide what another person can do with their body. > > They don’t. I don’t. The OP does not. The Pope does not. The Other Pope sure as Hell doesn’t. It is not her body the bartender would be concerned with it is the baby’s body. This goes way beyond opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/8 "2016-05-08T04:17:14Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > . . . The Pope does not. The Other Pope sure as Hell doesn’t. There’s two Popes? Anyway, agreement. This isn’t the bartender’s affair. (If she’s getting noisy drunk, he can cut her off. But he isn’t her nanny.) (Funny how the pro-life movement is made up of the same people, by and large, who mope about the liberal “nanny-state.” But when it’s their special interest, it’s suddenly okay to make decisions for other people.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/9 "2016-05-08T04:21:09Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > It is not her body the bartender would be concerned with it is the baby’s body. This goes way beyond opinion. It goes beyond opinion…but the bartender is the one who’s in the wrong. How does he know she’s pregnant, anyway? Maybe she’s just fat. Diagnosing someone as pregnant is beyond the typical bartender’s skill-set. He can ask her for ID to establish that she’s of drinking age…but, what, he gets to demand to see her latest sonogram? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/10 "2016-05-08T04:52:09Z")
It’s none of my business. My job is to serve drinks in accordance with the relevant laws and policies of my workplace. I can’t know the woman’s circumstances and I don’t presume to substitute my judgement for hers. If I’m uncomfortable working in a role that requires me to serve alcohol to visibly pregnant women, then it’s time for me to seek alternative employment. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/11 "2016-05-08T05:31:19Z")
Yeah, I always thought etiquette said you NEVER assumed a woman is pregnant. (You just know some bafoon is going to say something to an overweight woman and get the shit kicked out of him. And rightly so!) ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/12 "2016-05-08T07:20:27Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > It is not her body the bartender would be concerned with it is the baby’s body. This goes way beyond opinion. It does go way beyond opinion: > [@the redoubtable Rebecca Kukla](#): > > [Despite decades of research](http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0210-kukla-cdc-alcohol-pregnancy-20160210-story.html), and contrary to public belief, we have no substantial evidence that light drinking during pregnancy as part of a generally healthy lifestyle has any link with FASD. The CDC released a report in 2014 concluding that low to moderate alcohol use did not predict intelligence scores or attention skills in 5-year-olds. Nevertheless, the latest advisory claims that “there is no known safe amount of alcohol — even beer or wine — that is safe for a woman to drink at any stage of pregnancy.” The whole op-ed is worth reading, as it makes a convincing case that our push to keep pregnant women from social drinking (and in particular the CDC’s recent advice that women of child-bearing age who are not on birth control should abstain from _all_ alcohol) is patronizing bs. ---
**Author:** ![Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lo-Slung_Denim)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/13 "2016-05-08T09:17:34Z")
I have recent experience of this. I am heavily, evidently pregnant. I went in to a pub after work for a party when I finished for maternity leave, and I ordered a half pint of cider at the bar. Got served no question. Possible variable factors: I live in London and pregnant folks get given these badges to wear on the tube that say ‘baby on board’; they are designed to take the awkwardness away for people who want to offer a seat but don’t want to assume pregnancy. I still had mine on my jacket, so there was no question, I was announcing my ‘condition’. However, I first ordered a non-alcoholic beer then moments later came back for the half pint for my colleague, so the bartender probably assumed, correctly, it was for someone else. I haven’t consumed any alcohol at all during my pregnancy, but I haven’t seen any compelling evidence that moderate drinking is harmful to the foetus, particularly in later pregnancy. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the odd glass of wine or half a beer, but my husband is vehemently opposed and it wasn’t worth the trouble of an argument, because I don’t love alcohol that much that I would be bothered to cite my case. (Anyway baby is nearly here now so if I couldn’t hang on another couple of weeks for some booze, that might indicate some underlying issue…) If I was the bartender, I would serve her. If she was really drunk already, I might try to intervene in a caring way to ask if she’s ok or needs some help. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/14 "2016-05-08T09:56:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > There’s two Popes? Unless Benny has died since the last time I checked… _checks_ Yep, two Popes: one active and one emeritus. > [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > CDC’s recent advice that women of child-bearing age who are not on birth control should abstain from _all_ alcohol) is patronizing bs. I don’t drink alcohol because it doesn’t sit well with me, and I hate the taste of whisky, but that’s the kind of crap that makes me want to go get a bottle of Four Roses. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/15 "2016-05-08T12:15:19Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > You don’t know her facts. > Perhaps she just found out the fetus is dead and she’s trying to get up the nerve to fight the GOPs bizarre restrictions on abortion so she doesn’t have to waddle around with a rotting dead body in her uterus for 4 months. That was the first thing I thought of. And the first post when I opened the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/16 "2016-05-08T12:18:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It goes beyond opinion…but the bartender is the one who’s in the wrong. > > How does he know she’s pregnant, anyway? Maybe she’s just fat. Diagnosing someone as pregnant is beyond the typical bartender’s skill-set. He can ask her for ID to establish that she’s of drinking age…but, what, he gets to demand to see her latest sonogram? And this was my second thought. My third was that I also had a doctor who said “ten years ago I would have said drink a glass of wine. I can’t say that anymore, but no study has yet shown that a glass of wine once in a while will harm the fetus” - also high blood pressure and anxiety. Anxiety drugs are going to not be at all good for the fetus. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/17 "2016-05-08T12:38:53Z")
As far as I know a bartender is not a mandatory reporter in any US jurisdiction, and they are certainty not medical professionals. Serve the woman. Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/18 "2016-05-08T12:49:04Z")
Bartenders, by definition, are in an unethical profession (one of many). They are enablers, the same as drug dealers, gouging customers with exorbitant prices, but in a monopoly with state-privileged access, and just happen to be legal at this place and time in history. They obey the laws, but the laws have nothing to do with ethics nor morality. Laws, for the most part, exist for the convenience of the keepers of order and the generation of revenue. For example, what makes it ethical to satisfy an addictive craving for liquor on one day of the week or hour of the day, but not another? How is that a moral issue? Today, Sunday, it is “immoral” for my supermarket to scan and ring up my six pack at 11:55 this morning, but it’s OK at 12:05. Men with guns are empowered to enforce that morality. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/19 "2016-05-08T13:53:09Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > It does go way beyond opinion: > The whole op-ed is worth reading, as it makes a convincing case that our push to keep pregnant women from social drinking (and in particular the CDC’s recent advice that women of child-bearing age who are not on birth control should abstain from _all_ alcohol) is patronizing bs. I tend to agree that moderate drinking is harmless to an unborn baby but was under the impression that the medical community had determined otherwise. I am against a mother doing anything harmful to an unborn. Happy to hear that moderate drinking is not included in this. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261/20 "2016-05-08T14:06:38Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I tend to agree that moderate drinking is harmless to an unborn baby but was under the impression that the medical community had determined otherwise. I am against a mother doing anything harmful to an unborn. Happy to hear that moderate drinking is not included in this. The medical community has determined they do not want to be sued. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bartender-ethics-2-a-pregnant-woman-walks-into-a-bar/754261.md?page=2)