# Base running & Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481 "2004-10-27T17:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jack\_Sayid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jack\_Sayid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Sayid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/1 "2004-10-27T17:02:28Z")
So, I’m watching Jeff Suppan’s base running blunder last night in the World Series, and a thought popped into my head. _That’s an error in every way. How come obvious base running mistakes are not officially recorded as an **Error** in the stat sheet?_ The official error stat should track all plays where an error has occurred, right? Base running is a big part of the game. Why not track “the errors on the path”? ---
**Author:** ![freakstasy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@freakstasy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freakstasy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/2 "2004-10-27T17:05:53Z")
> [@Jack Sayid](#): > > So, I’m watching Jeff Suppan’s base running blunder last night in the World Series, and a thought popped into my head. > > _That’s an error in every way. How come obvious base running mistakes are not officially recorded as an **Error** in the stat sheet?_ > > The official error stat should track all plays where an error has occurred, right? Base running is a big part of the game. Why not track “the errors on the path”? [Caught stealing](http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Caught_stealing) is a statistic and a pretty good one. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/3 "2004-10-27T17:06:52Z")
You could, but the statistic error is shorthand for “fielding error.” So it doesn’t get counted. Generally, base running errors aren’t very common so they’re pretty easy to track. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Sayid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jack\_Sayid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Sayid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/4 "2004-10-27T17:44:33Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Generally, base running errors aren’t very common so they’re pretty easy to track. Where? How? If I want know how many base running errors were committed by the Baltimore Orioles in 2001, how would I do that? And “Caught Stealing” has nothing to do with errors. I’m talking about obvious base running mistakes. Blunders. Screw ups. If a guy hits a double, falls on his ass in-between 1st and 2nd base, and gets tagged out, that’s a base running error. If a guy dances in-between 3rd base and Home Plate, on a ground ball to the 1st baseman, and gets tagged out going back to 3rd base, that’s a base running error. I’m confused as to why these types of plays are not recorded as a general, official Error. Shouldn’t the subcategories of Errors be: Throwing, Fielding, Running? ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/5 "2004-10-27T17:47:32Z")
Baseball is the only sport that records blunders and puts them on par with Scoring in a box score. Why they do that is the real question. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/6 "2004-10-27T17:55:12Z")
So seam-heads like me can do dissertation-level probability work proving that the Cubs should have WON LAST YEAR, DAMMIT! ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/7 "2004-10-27T18:11:50Z")
The practice of recording fielding errors and displaying them on the scoreboard coequal with runs and hits is a holdover from a time when baseball was played with rudimentary gloves or even bare hands. In the 19th Century and into the early 20th Century, errors were quite common. It made sense to differentiate between the number of runners who got on base because of a hit and those who got on base because of a fielding misplay. Both were fairly common. But an error is a fairly rare event compared to a hit. It’s very rare compared to a walk. If you truly wanted to judge how a team was faring offensively (maybe not truly, but at least better), the line score would list “runs, hits, and walks” Game 1 would have had this line St Louis 9 11 6 Boston 11 13 8 Game 2 would have been: St. Lous 2 5 2 Boston 6 8 6 Game 3 Boston 4 9 4 St. Louis 1 4 2 Basrunning errors, such as Suppan’s in Game 3, are even rarer than fielding errors. And it’s sometimes hard whom to ascribe the baserunning error to. When Walker was thrown out at the plate, he had to run because Pujols had already broken off of first and would have been out on the basepaths. So he gambled that Ramirez would make a bad throw, which isn’t a big gamble. It just didn’t work. Suppan just screwed up. But other baserunning errors occur when the third base coach sends a runner home for the wrong reason. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/8 "2004-10-27T18:21:22Z")
“Caught stealing” is a running error, as is “picked off.” “Passed ball” is a catching error. “Wild pitch” and “Balk” are pitching errors. “Error” without a modifier refers exclusively to fielding errors, mistakes that allow a baserunner who should have been out with reasonably competent play to reach base safely. This becomes particularly important with regard to pitchers, where you’ll see men who are competent fielders put in seasons with four (fielding) errors, as well as several wild pitches and balks. If the latter were counted as errors against the pitcher it would not be an accurate reflection of his fielding talents. A fielding average is a reflection of how a player’s successful fielding chances (putouts and assists) compare to his total fielding chances (putouts, assists, and errors). Also remember that a batting average reflects how competent a batsman the batter actually is – he receives credit for a hit for each time he “hits it where they ain’t,” in Wee Willie Keeler’s phrase – not for how well he can get on base as a result of a mistake by the fielders. Therefore getting on base on an error counts as an out in his batting-average statistics – it’s an at-bat where he didn’t get a hit. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/9 "2004-10-27T18:23:54Z")
I’ve always assumed that errors are tracked so that the books add up. An official at bat is one that results in a hit or an out. Walks and errors are not counted as at bats. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/10 "2004-10-27T18:37:27Z")
Errors are counted as at-bats. That is if it’s an error on a batted ball. But there are also errors on wild throws on pickoffs and stolen base attempts and on dropped foul flies. Errors are not needed to make a box score balance out. The method for balancing out a box score are in the Official Rules of Baseball: Rule 10.03 > [@](#): > > HOW TO PROVE A BOX SCORE © A box score is in balance (or proved) when the total of the team’s times at bat, bases on balls received, hit batters, sacrifice bunts, sacrifice flies and batters awarded first base because of interference or obstruction equals the total of that team’s runs, players left on base and the opposing team’s putouts. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/11 "2004-10-27T18:38:11Z")
> [@Jack Sayid](#): > > I’m confused as to why these types of plays are not recorded as a general, official Error. Shouldn’t the subcategories of Errors be: Throwing, Fielding, Running? There are no subcategories of errors. Just errors. There are no official throwing errors and official fielding errors, just errors. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/12 "2004-10-27T18:55:02Z")
The problem I’d have with introducing a category of “baserunning error” is that fielding errors of any sort have to have a measurable effect on the course of the game to be counted. For example, a catcher can let a pitch sail to the backstop, but a baserunner has to advance for it to be called a “passed ball.” Similarly, a fielder can boot a ball, but so long as he recovers in time to make a putout, that “error” never appears in the statsheet. In other words, it’s not the misplay _per se_, but the _result_ of the misplay that makes an error. What I’m getting at for baserunning errors is this–how could the “result” of the baserunning misadventure be calculated? Surely, Suppan’s bumble at third base last night resulted in an unnecessary out. But what about Walker trying to test Ramirez’ arm on a potential sac fly, and getting thrown out at home? Was that a baserunning error, or just a good throw by Ramirez? I don’t think those distinctions are even as clear cut as the difference between “hit” and fielding “error.” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Sayid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jack\_Sayid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Sayid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/13 "2004-10-27T18:59:49Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > There are no subcategories of errors. Just errors. There are no official throwing errors and official fielding errors, just errors. Yeah, I know. I’m confused as to why they are not classified that way. Throwing errors are recorded as an error. Fielding errors are recorded as an error. Base running errors are not. Why? Why not record all of these as a general error (for the official box score), and break down the type of error as a secondary statistic? Seems easy enough to implement. And since obvious base running errors don’t occur that frequently, it should be easy to track. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/14 "2004-10-27T19:03:24Z")
None of the above changes would be easy to implement. Errors are all subjective. To get a better picture of what happens in a baseball game, you need more objective data and less subjective data. Guys come to bat. They either get on base or they make an out. If they get on base, they either score, get retired on the bases, or are left on base. Pretty simple. You get more of your guys all the way around than the other team, you win. How it’s done is of less importance to me. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/15 "2004-10-27T19:04:35Z")
Errors are a defensive statistic, not an offensive one. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Sayid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jack\_Sayid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Sayid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/16 "2004-10-27T19:07:20Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > The problem I’d have with introducing a category of “baserunning error” is that fielding errors of any sort have to have a measurable effect on the course of the game to be counted. For example, a catcher can let a pitch sail to the backstop, but a baserunner has to advance for it to be called a “passed ball.” Similarly, a fielder can boot a ball, but so long as he recovers in time to make a putout, that “error” never appears in the statsheet. In other words, it’s not the misplay _per se_, but the _result_ of the misplay that makes an error. > > What I’m getting at for baserunning errors is this–how could the “result” of the baserunning misadventure be calculated? Surely, Suppan’s bumble at third base last night resulted in an unnecessary out. But what about Walker trying to test Ramirez’ arm on a potential sac fly, and getting thrown out at home? Was that a baserunning error, or just a good throw by Ramirez? I don’t think those distinctions are even as clear cut as the difference between “hit” and fielding “error.” Good points. But again, I’m suggesting that **obvious** base running errors be tracked. Marginal plays, like getting thrown out at home on a single from 2nd base, would not be recorded as an error. Being caught stealing would not be recorded as an error. Only obvious base running blunders would recorded as an error. Come to think of it, I can only really think of two ways to get an official base running error: 1. Falling down and getting tagged out & 1. Dancing in-between bases when the ball is in play. Otherwise known as _“Doing the Suppan”_ ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/17 "2004-10-27T19:22:18Z")
If you started tracking down the baserunning errors you suggested, you would end up with a very small total at the end of the year. I doubt the worst team would have more than 40 in a whole season. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/18 "2004-10-27T20:09:11Z")
IMO, there are quite a few baserunning errors that never get noticed. Just because you make an out, it’s not necessarily an error, likewise just because you don’t doesn’t mean you haven’t. There’s a runner on first with two outs and the batter hits a popup. The runner usually jogs down to second and nearly always the popup is caught, no comment is made about this. It IS an error by the baserunner. Even in the few cases the ball is dropped, hardly ever do you hear the announcer say, “By God, the runner could have been at third base–or even scored–had he not been so lazy or had a brain cramp.” Everybody knows when someone has taken too big a lead, he gets picked off. But who noticed that the runner should have been further off the base, only to be thrown out by a step at home after the ball is hit? ---
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/19 "2004-10-27T20:10:53Z")
On a simular topic, I always thought that a run scored as a result of a pitcher’s error should be earned. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481/20 "2004-10-27T20:48:17Z")
> [@King Friday](#): > > On a simular topic, I always thought that a run scored as a result of a pitcher’s error should be earned. I follow the logic here, but I can defend the existing rule too: His job _as pitcher_ is to deliver the ball to the plate in such a way that (a) it cannot be hit, or (b) if hit, it will go within reach of a fielder for an out. (Ignore balls-and-strikes for purposes of this discussion.) Once he has delivered the ball to the plate, he “switches hats” and becomes a _fielder_, with the responsibilities of dealing with something delivered “down the middle” and then providing backup coverage of first base. If the ball is successfully hit directly to the shortstop, who muffs it, it’s not an error on the pitcher but on the shortstop, hence not an “earned” base with the potential for becoming an earned run. Likewise the rest of the infield. Now at this point, the pitcher is an infield fielder. If he muffs a catch or a throw resulting in an “unearned base,” it’s no different from it having been the third baseman, shortstop, etc. Hence it’s a **fielding error** on him, counting towards his fielding average but not towards his ERA. His performance _as pitcher_ was flawless; his performance _as fielder_, not so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/base-running-errors/271481.md?page=2)