# Baseball August 2009 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998 "2009-08-01T20:41:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/101 "2009-08-12T17:02:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Pffft. Youkilis was owned. His “lunge” consisted of holding on to Porcello for three or four steps, and then Porcello threw him down like a pair of deuces. Better watch again. Porcello put his arms out in a self-abasing gesture of apology and submissiveness, while running backward as quickly as he could, before being wrapped up and pulled down anyway. Meanwhile, the rest of the Pussycats players stood and watched. Which all COULD mean that the plunking was unplanned. Or it could simply reflect on all of their manhoods. 🙂 Let’s just all take for granted that most of the top performers in baseball in the 80’s and 90’s used, apply correction factors to their numbers as we see fit, and move on. At least the PA should permit the rest of the list to be released, so they and we can all get it all out instead of a leaked name at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/102 "2009-08-12T17:25:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Pffft. Youkilis was owned. His “lunge” consisted of holding on to Porcello for three or four steps, and then Porcello threw him down like a pair of deuces. > > Porcello hitting him was bush league, though. The Tazawa HBP on Cabrera was unintentional. Retaliating for a simple accident is bullshit. Yeah, Youklis lunged at Porcello the way he was lunging at balls in Left Field last weekend… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/103 "2009-08-12T17:43:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Unless it’s more than one night… > > However, we know he’s had an injury in his abdominal muscles. That will screw up your swing real good. You can swing a bat with a hangover but it’s hard to swing a bat when your abdominal muscle’s torn. He’s had a few other injuries as well including a groin pull and a sports hernia. It’s just been a tough year for Hamilton. His bat is starting to look better though. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/104 "2009-08-12T17:47:51Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > The big story for Texas fans, despite the tough loss, was the debut of Neftali Feliz. I watched him pitch 2 innings and he was unhittable. High 90s fastball (topped 100 a couple of times, but the A’s radar gun has been accused of running hot), with an absolutely vicious 2-seamer in the low 90s that tails away from lefties. He is the real deal. Feliz is incredible. He can look effortless when throwing 101 mph. He also throws strikes. He could be big down the stretch run. I can’t wait to see him as a starter next year. Also, more big pitching news for the Rangers as they promoted their top pitching prospect (ahead of even Holland and Feliz), Martin Perez, to AA this week. I think he’ll be making his debut tonight. He’s only 18 and already in AA. I guess we’ll see him in the big leagues in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/105 "2009-08-12T17:49:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Pffft. Youkilis was owned. His “lunge” consisted of holding on to Porcello for three or four steps, and then Porcello threw him down like a pair of deuces. Not only that, but Youkilis threw his batting helmet at Porcello before he got to him, which is also pretty fucking lame. I like Youkilis, but he looked like a chump on that play. > [@RickJay](#): > > Porcello hitting him was bush league, though. The Tazawa HBP on Cabrera was unintentional. Retaliating for a simple accident is bullshit. Agree. If there hadn’t been any tensions left over from the night before, i doubt he would have retaliated, but it seemed that basically any HBP was going to be interpreted as an intentional act last night, whether it was intentional or not. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Better watch again. Porcello put his arms out in a self-abasing gesture of apology and submissiveness, while running backward as quickly as he could, before being wrapped up and pulled down anyway. Meanwhile, the rest of the Pussycats players stood and watched. Bwuh? Are we watching the same video? The one where Youkilis threw his helmet at the pitcher, and then got taken to the ground in a judo-style throw for his troubles? By the way, **Elvis** , are you still as bullish on Big Papi as you were two months ago, when you insisted that he was back? I think your final word on the matter was: > [@Baseball June 2009](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-june-2009/498348/140): > > Another dinger for Papi last night. A no-doubter right over the Wall. 3 in 5 games. > Any further questions? In the two months since then, Ortiz’s line is: .240/.316/.485 Since July 1, he’s batting .208/.275/.424 In August so far, he’s at .111/.200/.139 On the plus side, his season OPS (.711) is exactly the same as that other superstar, Vernon Wells, with three more homers as 14 fewer stolen bases. And Ortiz at least has the advantage of playing a strong center field. Oh wait, my mistake. That’s Wells. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/106 "2009-08-12T17:54:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Bwuh? > > Are we watching the same video? The one where Youkilis threw his helmet at the pitcher, and then got taken to the ground in a judo-style throw for his troubles? Yeah, I just watched the video (hadn’t seen the clip yet) and Youk definitely looks bad. He throws his helmet, which by itself is a pretty lame move, then he grabs porcell, but porcello is clearly the one doing the throwing to the ground. Thats how it looks from [this angle at least](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOiUV3xNlOI). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/107 "2009-08-12T18:31:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > On the plus side, his season OPS (.711) is exactly the same as that other superstar, Vernon Wells, with three more homers as 14 fewer stolen bases. And Ortiz at least has the advantage of playing a strong center field. Oh wait, my mistake. That’s Wells. 🙂 Yeah, but Ortiz isn’t going to cost his team another $100 million. He’s done soon, but his contract ends after 2010 (Boston has an option for 2011 for $12.5 million, but obviously won’t pick it up unless Ortiz finds some better 'roids.) In total the Red Sox owe him another $17 million or so, counting this year and next. Wells is owed - well, about a hundred million clams. So in 2011, Boston can spend that money any way they like. Toronto will have to pay Vernon Wells $12.5 million between April and July. Wells, while a somewhat better player now, is going to cost the Blue Jays, and cost them, and cost them, and cost them some more. And he’s likely going to get worse. He doesn’t have a good nickname. I vote for “Albatross.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/108 "2009-08-12T18:41:01Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > By the way, **Elvis** , are you still as bullish on Big Papi as you were two months ago, when you insisted that he was back?..In the two months since then, Ortiz’s line is: .240/.316/.485 Not quite, but he’s still respectable once again. Just another case among many of a hand/wrist injury completely messing up a guy’s hitting for up to a year. Now, what you’re seeing is more age (on a Dominican birth certificate 🙂 ) and PED withdrawal. Still, wouldn’t you rather have him in your lineup than not? The Ortiz, Lowell, Varitek, and Drew contracts are all up after next season. Theo’s going to have to be coldblooded like he’s never been coldblooded before. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/109 "2009-08-12T18:46:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wells is owed - well, about a hundred million clams. …Toronto will have to pay Vernon Wells $12.5 million between April and July. But that’s Canadian, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/110 "2009-08-12T19:15:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But that’s Canadian, right? 😉 I wish it was Mexican. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/111 "2009-08-12T19:18:22Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > On the other hand, Barry never failed a drug test [Except this one.](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2727325) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/112 "2009-08-12T19:37:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Except this one.](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2727325) The trainer gave them to me, a team mate said try these and of course I did, I thought they were vitamins, a doctor gave them to me, the dog ate my homework. They never did anything wrong, ever. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/113 "2009-08-12T20:25:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yeah, but Ortiz isn’t going to cost his team another $100 million. He’s done soon, but his contract ends after 2010 (Boston has an option for 2011 for $12.5 million, but obviously won’t pick it up unless Ortiz finds some better 'roids.) In total the Red Sox owe him another $17 million or so, counting this year and next. Wells is owed - well, about a hundred million clams. So in 2011, Boston can spend that money any way they like. Toronto will have to pay Vernon Wells $12.5 million between April and July. > > Wells, while a somewhat better player now, is going to cost the Blue Jays, and cost them, and cost them, and cost them some more. And he’s likely going to get worse. He doesn’t have a good nickname. I vote for “Albatross.” Sure. My comparison was purely at the level of current performance, without any consideration of long-term costs and liabilities. I didn’t realize until recently how massively back-end-loaded Wells’ contract was. On the one hand, if you’re going to give out a big contract, i guess back-loading makes some sense for the team, because money paid later is generally cheaper than (the same amount of) money paid now, due to the effects of inflation, interest, etc. On the other hand, it really stings when you have someone like Wells who is massively underperforming his salary, and who is getting more and more money the worse he gets. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still, wouldn’t you rather have him in your lineup than not? I guess it depends on what you mean by “not.” If it meant actually losing a roster spot, then sure i’d prefer to have Ortiz than no-one at all. But his batting stats this year place him barely, if anything, above what a replacement player would provide. If the Red Sox could get someone just above replacement level for ML minimum salary instead of Ortiz, it would probably be a good move. Of course, the $13 million Ortiz is getting this year, and the similar amount he’s getting next year, are basically a sunk cost, because it’s very unlikely that the Red Sox would be able to convince anyone to take over that contract. In that sense, keeping him costs the team nothing, so they might as well do it. But that’s not the same as saying that he’s actually an asset to the team, or that i’d “rather have him in [my] lineup than not.” In fact, the Sox might actually benefit from restricting his playing time to situational pinch hitting, or starting him only in games where the pitching matchup has a strong upside for Ortiz. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/114 "2009-08-12T21:38:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Except this one.](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2727325) Amphetamines? The stuff they keep in candy dishes in the locker rooms? I’ll reserve my outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/115 "2009-08-12T21:40:33Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Amphetamines? The stuff they keep in candy dishes in the locker rooms? I’ll reserve my outrage. Just stating the facts: he did fail a drug test. That is, unless you believe his nutritional supplements were spiked by that notoriously head-swollen roid rager Mark Sweeney. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/116 "2009-08-12T21:53:00Z")
I probably should’ve specified that Bonds never failed a steroid test. Just to be clear, I think he’s a pretty loathsome human being, but that’s just because he’s a jerk (witness finger-pointing at Sweeney), not because he’s a PED abuser. I just think it ironic that he got all the vitriol dumped on him, while a lot of players after him get a pass – perhaps we’ve just gotten numb and don’t care anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/117 "2009-08-12T22:31:41Z")
The Yanks win in the 11th, for their 11th walk-off victory of the season. They go 6 -1 on the homestand to go 28 up on the season. Now they go on a 10 game road trip that takes them out west to Seattle and Oakland for 7 and then to Boston for 3 games that could be crucial. I like the makeup of this team. The pen has been solid and having the Hughes-Mo combo in late innings is huge. At this point, the Angels scare me the most. They have had the Yankees’ number for a while now. I hope they fade… ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/118 "2009-08-13T00:01:27Z")
Hate the Yankees all you want, but[this](http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=reilly_rick&id=4391631&sportCat=mlb)is a cool story. I know most teams do community stuff that never gets publicized, but still… ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/119 "2009-08-13T01:52:02Z")
I like this. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998/120 "2009-08-13T02:14:12Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > The Yanks win in the 11th, for their 11th walk-off victory of the season. They go 6 -1 on the homestand to go 28 up on the season. Now they go on a 10 game road trip that takes them out west to Seattle and Oakland for 7 and then to Boston for 3 games that could be crucial. I like the makeup of this team. The pen has been solid and having the Hughes-Mo combo in late innings is huge. At this point, the Angels scare me the most. They have had the Yankees’ number for a while now. I hope they fade… I have been hoping the Rangers knock the Angels out. In a matter of match-ups, the Angels are our scariest foe. They also have the best manager. It helps, especially in the post season. > [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Hate the Yankees all you want, but[this](http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=reilly_rick&id=4391631&sportCat=mlb)is a cool story. I know most teams do community stuff that never gets publicized, but still… Michael Kay talked about it a lot on the air. The whole program was pretty cool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-august-2009/504998.md?page=7)