# Baseball: Best ever performance by a non-pitcher forced to pitch? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [May 27, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138 "2024-05-27T11:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/1 "2024-05-27T11:26:21Z")
I was watching a video game stream yesterday of a baseball game. During the game, the AI made some questionable substitutions and in the 8th inning ran out of pitchers and brought in a substitute outfielder. Needless to say the outfielder did not do well. 1. Has something like this ever happened? 2. If this has not only happened but isn’t that rare, then what non-pitcher has the best record as an impromptu pitcher? 3. Just anything on the topic of a non-pitcher being forced into pitching. There seems to always be some interesting links and stories when I ask these questions. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/2 "2024-05-27T11:28:21Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Has something like this ever happened? It’s called “pitching by position players” and it’s become increasingly common in recent years. > **[Pitching by position players](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players)** > > In baseball, pitching by position players refers to the act of a position player (a player who is normally a catcher, an infielder, an outfielder, or, in this context, a designated hitter) being used as a pitcher. A position player typically pitches when a game has a lopsided score or when the game has gone so far into extra innings that no other pitchers are available. The term is not used for a two-way player, a baseball player who is skilled at pitching and who plays another position.\[a\] > Alth... ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/3 "2024-05-27T11:43:53Z")
Well at least this time I was wise enough to realize it probably wasn’t that rare. LOL Thanks for the link! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/4 "2024-05-27T11:45:51Z")
> [@](#): > > ### Restriction[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pitching_by_position_players&action=edit§ion=2)] > > MLB announced a new [collective bargaining agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining_agreement) (CBA) with the [Major League Baseball Players Association](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Players_Association) (MLBPA) in 2019, intended to be effective in the [2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Major_League_Baseball_season) season, that included restrictions on position players pitching. Each team designates players as either “position players” or “pitchers” before the start of the season, and that designation cannot be changed during the season. Under the 2019 agreement, only players who were designated as pitchers were allowed to pitch in any regular-season or postseason game, with three exceptions: either team was ahead by 6 or more runs, the game was in [extra innings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_innings), or a player had earned the status of “[two-way player](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-way_player#Baseball)” per the MLB definition.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-Adler-7)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-2020_changes-8)[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-Castrovince-9)[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-2020_announcement-10) Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/5 "2024-05-27T12:54:36Z")
[Moderating] While this thread could be considered a factual question (depending on precisely how one defines “best performance”), it’s a better fit for the Game Room. Moving. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/6 "2024-05-27T13:23:40Z")
[5 MLB players have played all 9 positions in one game](https://www.mlb.com/news/players-to-play-all-9-positions-in-same-mlb-game). Each one was a great performance in a game just as part of the combo. They weren’t all that great pitching performances alone though, even when they finished the game on the mound. Getting to do this at all was simply a stunt when a team had a huge lead or was out of contention. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/7 "2024-05-27T13:57:46Z")
Position players who pitch usually only do so for an inning, maybe two. In that short a time, it’s possible to be successful largely through luck which makes it hard to rate “best performances.” ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/8 "2024-05-27T14:50:19Z")
That’s amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/9 "2024-05-27T15:18:44Z")
This collection of clips from a couple years ago should be of interest. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bQC6W6OUvqQ/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-CYAC0AWKAgwIABABGDwgUyhlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLCh8WeO-D0OyfU8T4Yk4q-EAkny_Q "Position players pitching! The best of the best of position players taking the mound!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQC6W6OUvqQ) ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/10 "2024-05-27T16:00:32Z")
Thanks for sharing! Those are great 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/11 "2024-05-27T16:10:45Z")
So watching those clips, what is evident is that the teams are not playing version seriously anymore as the game is no longer really in play. Batters seem to swing that things that might not normally swing at, perhaps to have the game end. Not intentionally missing, but swinging at a pitch that is quite high or outside. So determining a best performance would be really difficult. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/12 "2024-05-27T16:13:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Position players who pitch usually only do so for an inning, maybe two. In that short a time, it’s possible to be successful largely through luck which makes it hard to rate “best performances.” Exactly. With the exception of long extra-inning games, where a team could simply run out of available pitchers, when a position player is tapped to pitch, it’s nearly always because the game is a blowout, and the manager wants to not use up too many pitchers in a game where the outcome is a foregone conclusion, rather than being “forced” to use a position player as a pitcher. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/13 "2024-05-27T16:46:45Z")
One could imagine all sorts of odd scenarios. For instance: Ninth inning, and the real pitcher has gotten two strikeouts, before he injures his arm and needs to be replaced. Position player comes in and throws eight balls in a row. But then, the guy on second (who’s only there because of the walks) tries to steal third, and the position-pitcher catches him at it to get the final out to win the game. On the one hand, that guy’s actual pitching was terrible, but on the other, he managed to end the game without giving up any runs. Good performance, or bad performance? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/14 "2024-05-27T16:49:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Good performance, or bad performance? Bad performance, despite probably getting the save in that instance. He walked two, apparently didn’t even manage to throw a strike, but got away unscathed because he threw the guy out at third (which is more of a fielding play than a pitching play). ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/15 "2024-05-27T16:49:46Z")
Could be an interesting variation to experiment with: every at-bat, everyone on the defense changes position. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/16 "2024-05-27T16:55:42Z")
Neither good nor bad if the team had a big lead. Good enough performance if the other team could have won with one more hit, but bad performance from a manager if he had any pitchers left to put in the game in that circumstance. I’d think after the walks another position player should have been chosen to pitch if no pitchers were available. Even a pitcher set to start a game the next day will be called up to finish a game that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/17 "2024-05-27T16:56:06Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > ### Restriction[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pitching_by_position_players&action=edit§ion=2)] > > > > MLB announced a new [collective bargaining agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining_agreement) (CBA) with the [Major League Baseball Players Association](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Players_Association) (MLBPA) in 2019, intended to be effective in the [2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Major_League_Baseball_season) season, that included restrictions on position players pitching. Each team designates players as either “position players” or “pitchers” before the start of the season, and that designation cannot be changed during the season. Under the 2019 agreement, only players who were designated as pitchers were allowed to pitch in any regular-season or postseason game, with three exceptions: either team was ahead by 6 or more runs, the game was in [extra innings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_innings), or a player had earned the status of “[two-way player](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-way_player#Baseball)” per the MLB definition.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-Adler-7)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-2020_changes-8)[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-Castrovince-9)[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_by_position_players#cite_note-2020_announcement-10) > > Huh. Sounds like another of MLB’s pointless no-fun rules, along with prohibiting the (freakishly rare) ambidextrous pitcher from throwing from both sides in a single at-bat, and requiring pre-approval of signings to eliminate the possibility of a team sending a three foot seven batter to the plate. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/18 "2024-05-27T16:58:22Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > So watching those clips, what is evident is that the teams are not playing version seriously anymore as the game is no longer really in play. Batters seem to swing that things that might not normally swing at, perhaps to have the game end. Not intentionally missing, but swinging at a pitch that is quite high or outside. So determining a best performance would be really difficult. They are playing seriously. At the end of the season when your contract is on the line it doesn’t matter if that home run or strike out was from the Cy Young winner or a position player. No one is expecting a batter to not try and hit. There are baseball etiquette rules that come up. Not actual rules but things you don’t do when a position player is pitching. No bunting. No stealing. No swinging at 3-0 pitches. Many position players that want to pitch seem to be proud of their knuckleball. If the knuckleball is working it might embarrass even a good hitter. Not too many knuckleballs are thrown in the majors currently. Some of those out of the strike zone swings you see are batters fooled by a knuckleball. If you don’t see them it’s hard to get the timing down. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/19 "2024-05-27T17:01:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Sounds like another of MLB’s pointless no-fun rules Well, on the whole, position players pitching isn’t “fun” – it nearly always happens in games that are blowouts, and frankly, both teams are just trying to get the game over with. Most position players aren’t anything close to an MLB-quality pitcher (if they were, they’d be pitchers, after all), and with the rare exception of a stunt like “this guy played all nine positions in a game,” it’s not really interesting to the fans to watch them pitch. The issue is that MLB teams are far more reliant on relief pitchers than they used to be (pulling starting pitchers earlier in games, and changing relievers more often), for a bunch of reasons. Due to this, managers started using position players as pitchers even more often, in an effort to keep from having to burn through their bullpens in a game that’s out of reach. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/20 "2024-05-27T17:06:34Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not too many knuckleballs are thrown in the majors currently. At the moment, I think that there is only one actual MLB pitcher who uses the knuckleball with any regularity: [Matt Waldron](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/waldrma01.shtml) of the Padres. But, unlike pitchers like Tim Wakefield or the Niekro brothers, who used the knuckleball as their primary pitch, it looks like Waldron uses it as one of his off-speed pitches. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138.md?page=2)