# Baseball: Best ever performance by a non-pitcher forced to pitch? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [May 27, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138 "2024-05-27T11:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/21 "2024-05-27T17:22:40Z")
Here’s a collection of some notable performances by non-pitchers. Which one is “best” is open to debate. Jose Oquendo of the Cardinals pitched four innings for the longest performance, but ultimately lost the game. J.D. Davis of Houston threw 24 pitches, and 21 of them were 90+ mph fastballs, making him arguably the toughest pitcher to face. Matty Alou of the Giants struck Willie Stargell out twice in two innings, > **[Best performances by position players pitching](https://www.mlb.com/news/best-position-player-pitching-outings)** > > We’ve become quite accustomed to position players pitching. In 2018, more than 40 appeared on the mound at least once, breaking the Expansion Era (since 1961) record. Then in 2019, that record was broken again, with more than 50 position players... ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/22 "2024-05-27T21:18:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There are baseball etiquette rules that come up. Not actual rules but things you don’t do when a position player is pitching. No bunting. No stealing. No swinging at 3-0 pitches. What is the motivation for this etiquette? Is it to keep the game moving (assuming it is a blowout)? Or out of respect for the position player at the plate? Some other reason? A combination? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/23 "2024-05-27T21:38:44Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > What is the motivation for this etiquette? If it’s the ninth inning in a blowout, both teams want to finish the hell up and get out of there. If it’s a tie game in the 17th inning, you’ll swing at a 3-0 pitch, bunt, steal or whatever you need to do to get a run across the plate. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/24 "2024-05-27T21:48:05Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Bad performance, despite probably getting the save in that instance. He walked two, apparently didn’t even manage to throw a strike, but got away unscathed because he threw the guy out at third (which is more of a fielding play than a pitching play). Yeah, I kind of contrived the situation to get that answer, but my point was that you need to be careful of what statistics you use to track something like this: If you just looked at runs given up, for instance, well, you can’t get any better than zero runs, so that guy would look good. Which means that runs given up is the wrong statistic to use. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/25 "2024-05-27T21:58:36Z")
Very cool! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/26 "2024-05-27T21:59:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which means that runs given up is the wrong statistic to use. Or, at least, deceptive when viewed by itself. Based on what you described, his total stat block for the outing would look something like this: IP: 1/3 H: 0 R: 0 ER: 0 BB: 2 K: 0 Batters Faced: 3 (the two he walked, plus the one who was at-bat when he threw the lead runner out at third) Total Pitches/Strikes: 8/0 At least that tells a bit more of the tale. And, assuming that he came in during a “save situation” – in this case, with his team up by no more than two runs, based on what you described – he would, indeed, get credited with a save, albeit an ugly one. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/27 "2024-05-27T22:46:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They are playing seriously. At the end of the season when your contract is on the line it doesn’t matter if that home run or strike out was from the Cy Young winner or a position player. No one is expecting a batter to not try and hit. Now that advanced stats are assigning value to a hitter based on how they do against specific pitches, it actually does matter if that home run was off a 98 mph slider or a 45 mph meatball. And the internet is full of position players pitching where righty batters are hitting lefty, swinging wildly at anything etc. They are most definitely having fun and not taking it all that seriously. But of course, many (most?) hitters do take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/28 "2024-05-28T18:10:46Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > There are baseball etiquette rules that come up. Not actual rules but things you don’t do when a position player is pitching. No bunting. No stealing. No swinging at 3-0 pitches. > > What is the motivation for this etiquette? Is it to keep the game moving (assuming it is a blowout)? Or out of respect for the position player at the plate? Some other reason? A combination? Those are all things you do to manufacture runs when you are in a tight game. If you are far ahead at the end of the game you don’t have to manufacture runs. You already have them. The losing team is still going to hope for a miracle but it’s unlikely to happen. At that point in the game the leading team will most likely pull some of their hard hitting stars and substitute in their strong defensive bench players. > [@Munch](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > They are playing seriously. At the end of the season when your contract is on the line it doesn’t matter if that home run or strike out was from the Cy Young winner or a position player. No one is expecting a batter to not try and hit. > > Now that advanced stats are assigning value to a hitter based on how they do against specific pitches, it actually does matter if that home run was off a 98 mph slider or a 45 mph meatball. And the internet is full of position players pitching where righty batters are hitting lefty, swinging wildly at anything etc. They are most definitely having fun and not taking it all that seriously. But of course, many (most?) hitters do take it seriously. Most of what I have seen is not like that. They are swinging wildly and missing badly because it’s a knuckleball or a 50 mph fastball when their timing is set at 98. They are laughing at the absurdity of missing a pitch they should have hit. Not one major leaguer wants to strike out against a position pitcher and hear about it in the lockerroom. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/29 "2024-05-29T20:20:53Z")
It occurs to me that a bunt might actually be less effective against a position-pitcher, for a couple of reasons. First, a bunt depends entirely on the incoming velocity of the pitch, with almost no energy added by the batter, so it’ll do less with a slow pitch. And second, a position player is probably better at fielding than a regular pitcher, and with a bunt, you don’t want a good fielder right in the middle of the infield. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/30 "2024-05-30T00:20:38Z")
If an ambidextrous pitcher faces a switch hitter, you need some rule. The one time I saw it happen, an Expos pitcher named Greg Harris did it. He had discussed it with the umpire beforehand and the ump ruled that before each at-bat, the pitcher had to choose a side and stick to it. I believe that is now the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/31 "2024-05-30T01:07:23Z")
Why do you “need” a rule? Will the baseball gods be angered otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/32 "2024-05-30T01:20:55Z")
Yeah, it’s an accepted part of the game that switch-hitting and switch-pitching are both valuable skills in the game and deserve the reward that they earn. The only even potential problem I can see is that every time the pitcher switches, he needs to change gloves, which might slow down the game. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/33 "2024-05-30T01:23:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The only even potential problem I can see is that every time the pitcher switches, he needs to change gloves, which might slow down the game. There are ambidextrous baseball gloves. [https://www.rawlings.com/product/GXLEAMB-4B-3%2F0.html](https://www.rawlings.com/product/GXLEAMB-4B-3%2F0.html) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/34 "2024-05-30T02:21:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Why do you “need” a rule? > > Will the baseball gods be angered otherwise? No, the players and fans will get angry when the batter takes his stance in the batter’s box opposite to the pitcher’s arm, so the pitcher moves his (ambidextrous) glove to his other arm, so the batter steps out and crosses over to the opposite batter’s box, so the pitcher switches again . . . Much better to have a rule saying which party has to commit first (the pitcher). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/35 "2024-05-30T03:52:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It occurs to me that a bunt might actually be less effective against a position-pitcher, for a couple of reasons. First, a bunt depends entirely on the incoming velocity of the pitch, with almost no energy added by the batter, so it’ll do less with a slow pitch. And second, a position player is probably better at fielding than a regular pitcher, and with a bunt, you don’t want a good fielder right in the middle of the infield. That’s bunting for a hit. I don’t know if a position player would have an advantage. Fielding as a pitcher is much different than any other position. A position player would also not practice covering first and other things a pitcher has to know by instinct. Bunting for a sacrifice is also considered bad form since you are trying to manufacture a run using small ball while being far ahead and the other team is conceding. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/36 "2024-05-30T18:48:06Z")
I hate it when that happens. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138/37 "2024-06-01T00:24:03Z")
I saw a video clip of a minor league game where this happened. It was pretty comical. It must have gone on for at least a dozen iterations. If I recall correctly, the ump made an on-the-spot rules interpretation, since that could have gone on all night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-best-ever-performance-by-a-non-pitcher-forced-to-pitch/1002138.md?page=1)