# Baseball expansion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571 "2008-04-01T19:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/1 "2008-04-01T19:54:38Z")
In order to not hijack [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9640296#post9640296) thread, I’ll continue the discussion of MLB expansion here. I don’t support expansion. I’d actually prefer to contract two teams, but I know that won’t happen. Pitching is at a premium in MLB with most staffs only 2 deep with top quality starters. I can see a possible franchise relocation in the future. If the Marlins’ stadium plan falls through, they’re gone. Same thing with the Oakland A’s. But, adding more teams? I don’t see it for at least 10-20 years down the road. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/2 "2008-04-01T19:56:59Z")
I agree. Contraction would make more sense, but I doubt the Players Association would go along. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/3 "2008-04-01T20:09:39Z")
Taxpayers need to build more stadiums for multi millionaires. We must do our best to help this downtrodden minority reach the American dream. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/4 "2008-04-01T20:34:41Z")
I am adamantly against anything that causes there to be less baseball for me to watch. Arguing that there is not enough pitching is the same as saying taxes are too high. It doesn’t matter what the levels are at, people will always complain about it. Baseball is a zero sum, it is impossible to tell how good pitching is independent of offense. In fact the league era has gone down substantially over the last couple seasons. Contraction “makes sense” based on what? Baseball is making a ton of money right now. Why would it want to make less money? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/5 "2008-04-02T00:02:22Z")
People always point towards the pitching becoming thin after an expansion, for some reason, but never the hitting. I’ll clue ya in: the vast majority of teams in the entire history of baseball have struggled to find “2 top quality pitchers” for their rotations. With the influx of talent from various Eastern (Oriental) countries over the last 10 years or so, you could argue that the quality level of talent in the game today has never been higher. Before 1947, there were only white players (+ occasional “white-skinned” Latino) in the majors. While African-Americans have declined in % terms over the past 20 years or so, Latinos have definitely picked up more than their share of the slack (along with the Ichiros and Dice-K’s). There will probably be another round of expansion sometime in the next 10 years, and I for one welcome it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/6 "2008-04-02T01:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] In order to not hijack [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9640296#post9640296) thread, I’ll continue the discussion of MLB expansion here. I don’t support expansion. I’d actually prefer to contract two teams, but I know that won’t happen. Pitching is at a premium in MLB with most staffs only 2 deep with top quality starters. I can see a possible franchise relocation in the future. If the Marlins’ stadium plan falls through, they’re gone. Same thing with the Oakland A’s. [/QUOTE] The A’s stadium plans for Fremont are a done deal, if I am not mistaken. Cisco’s already bought the naming rights. … More teams will be added when two more business interests come along with bucketloads of money and a reasonably good stadium plan. No sooner, and no later. As to the issue of talent dilution, it’s nonsense. People have been saying “there isn’t enough good pitching” since Lou Gehrig was healthy. There’s plenty of talent to go around, and in ten years there will be more. Contraction is a flatly insane and stupid idea that will benefit nobody, piss off a lot of fans, and make MLB look weak at a time that it’s doing fantastic business. I cannot think of a single good reason to contract. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/7 "2008-04-02T02:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I cannot think of a single good reason to contract. [/QUOTE] The Tampa Bay Rays. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/8 "2008-04-02T02:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Contraction is a flatly insane and stupid idea that will benefit nobody, piss off a lot of fans, and make MLB look weak at a time that it’s doing fantastic business. I cannot think of a single good reason to contract. [/QUOTE] Absolutely, and it was insane when Minnesota (immediately made the playoffs and will have a new stadium) and Montreal (moved to Washington and has a new stadium) were suggested. If anything, I would suggest expansion to the point where balanced schedules are again feasible. Each team should play the same number of games against its division rivals, a lesser same number of games against _all_ the other teams in its league, and teams in each division should play the same number of games against the same teams in a corresponding division in the other league if (God help us!) interleague play continues. The real solution is revenue sharing. The Yankees and Dodgers needs to share local radio and TV rights with the visiting team. Every time the Orioles play in Yankee Stadium, they should receive 1/81 of the broadcast money the Yankees get for a home game. Every time the Orioles play the Yankees at Camden Yards, they should get 1/81 of the money the Yankees get for an away game. And vice versa. It’s ludicrous to think that a team in Baltimore can monetarily compete with a team in New York City!, and that needs to be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/9 "2008-04-02T02:34:06Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] The Tampa Bay Rays. [/QUOTE] The Rays have had miserable attendance, because they have had miserable teams. If you contracted teams in the late 80’s on this basis, the top two teams on the list would have been the Indians and Braves. The Rays are about to get very good, and with that will come money, popularity, and everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/10 "2008-04-02T02:36:33Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] It’s ludicrous to think that a team in Baltimore can monetarily compete with a team in New York City!, and that needs to be fixed. [/QUOTE] Of the numerous reasons why the Orioles haven’t competed with the Yankees, money is pretty low on the list. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/11 "2008-04-02T03:18:02Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Of the numerous reasons why the Orioles haven’t competed with the Yankees, money is pretty low on the list. [/QUOTE] Nonsense. Substitute Tampa Bay, Kansas City, or any team you like that cannot afford the Alex Rodriguez’ of the world. Even given that the Orioles management sucks lately, they could not compete even if they were good. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/12 "2008-04-02T03:59:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] The Rays have had miserable attendance, because they have had miserable teams. If you contracted teams in the late 80’s on this basis, the top two teams on the list would have been the Indians and Braves. The Rays are about to get very good, and with that will come money, popularity, and everything else. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. The Marlin have won **two** World Series in their fifteen years of existence, but did you happen to see the crowd there for the game tonight against the Mets? Attendance is listed as there having been 15,117 people there; yet, having seen the highlights, I’d be amazed if there were _a quarter_ of that amount there. The Marlin, in spite of their successes, still have minimal fan support. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/13 "2008-04-02T04:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] The Tampa Bay Rays. [/QUOTE] So what would be gained by getting rid of them, exactly? What makes them so much worse than other expansion teams? Tampa Bay has now had ten straight losing seasons. Seattle started their history with 14 straight. Should we not have a Seattle Mariners? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/14 "2008-04-02T04:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Should we not have a Seattle Mariners? [/QUOTE] Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/15 "2008-04-02T04:45:05Z")
I fail to see the need for a team west or south of St. Louis. Each borough of New York should have its own team. Pitchers failing to finish a game while still retaining both arms should be mocked incessantly. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/16 "2008-04-02T05:08:56Z")
What cities have the best shot at an expansion team, or picking up a team moving out? Vegas? Indy? San Juan? ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/17 "2008-04-02T06:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] The A’s stadium plans for Fremont are a done deal, if I am not mistaken. Cisco’s already bought the naming rights. [/QUOTE] I thought this too, but from what I hear third hand from my SO who is a lawyer (very) peripherally associated with the case, it’s far from a done deal. She says there are a number of legal hoops that are going to have to get jumped through for it to work, including a large portion of environmentally protected land in that area. I’m guessing the “done deal” image they are portraying is part of a negotiating ploy. I should say “hoping” instead of “guessing.” Please don’t move to fremont! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/18 "2008-04-02T06:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] What cities have the best shot at an expansion team, or picking up a team moving out? Vegas? Indy? San Juan? [/QUOTE] I think Portland is the best candidate. I also think this retarded resistance to putting a team in Vegas ought to stop. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/19 "2008-04-02T06:07:19Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] I also think this retarded resistance to putting a team in Vegas ought to stop. [/QUOTE] Amen! Who wouldn’t want to catch a game on a Vegas trip? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571/20 "2008-04-02T06:13:13Z")
[QUOTE=HoboStew] Please don’t move to fremont! [/QUOTE] What’s the overall consensus on the possible move? The current stadium and location is nothing to write home about. Are there better alternatives? Wouldn’t taking the team closer to San Jose be just the type of financial boost that would make them a perennial contender? I admit that the East Bay geography isn’t my strong suit but what’s the temperature of the fans? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-expansion/443571.md?page=2)