# Baseball fan tasered for running onto the field **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299 "2010-05-04T17:11:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/41 "2010-05-04T21:08:31Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Oh, right – Monica Seles was [the tennis player that got stabbed](http://tennisplanet.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/tennis-player-stabbed-on-the-court-monica-seles/). I don’t think the threat of a tasering is going to stop an attempt to stab someone. They’ve already gone round the bend, as they’re attempting murder in public, on camera. Tasering could be useful in preventing an attack in progress, but it won’t serve as a threat/example to keep the next person from trying it. It would probably work somewhat better to keep folks from running around the field like a jackass, but I’m not sure that’s an appropriate reason to do it. Then again, ppl seem to get tased at the drop of a hat these days, so why should this be different? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/42 "2010-05-04T21:12:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, they are. But again, those guys jumped the fence, charged the base coach, and attacked him. Taser them, no problem. A guy running around on the outfield is an idiot who should be arrested, but is not a threat. Take him down, and if he makes a threatening move toward someone, go ahead and Taser him. You do not know he’s not a threat until he’s in custody. The kid could have pulled a weapon out of his pants, or otherwise endangered players, fans, umpires, and/or security personnel attempting to subdue him. I have no problem with him being taken down, whether via taser or other non-lethal method. Oddly enough, from the link, it appears the Phillies are not pleased about the use of a taser. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/43 "2010-05-04T21:24:50Z")
From the video it just looks like an unarmed kid running around having fun. There were enough security guys to take him down. Yeah, no need to taser IMO. I bet all those who favored tasering would feel differently had the kid suffered some permanent damage or was killed. Tasers aren’t as safe as you think. Just ask [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2865/how-dangerous-are-tasers). ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/44 "2010-05-04T21:29:59Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > I bet all those who favored tasering would feel differently had the kid suffered some permanent damage or was killed. I don’t know that I agree. I think it would have been very sad if someone performing a relatively harmless prank was seriously injured or killed, but as has already been pointed out, a simple tackle and someone falling the wrong way could produce the very same results. People assume certain (foolish) risks when they brazenly break the law. I would have been sad had he truly been hurt just for being dumb, but I don’t think I would have faulted the taser. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/45 "2010-05-04T21:35:14Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > From the video it just looks like an unarmed kid running around having fun. There were enough security guys to take him down. Yeah, no need to taser IMO. I bet all those who favored tasering would feel differently had the kid suffered some permanent damage or was killed. Tasers aren’t as safe as you think. Just ask [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2865/how-dangerous-are-tasers). Not me. Kid was stupid, and assumed the risk of injury when he ran on the field. It would be sad if he died or was seriously injured, but he has no one to blame but himself. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/46 "2010-05-04T21:39:06Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I don’t know that I agree. I think it would have been very sad if someone performing a relatively harmless prank was seriously injured or killed, but as has already been pointed out, a simple tackle and someone falling the wrong way could produce the very same results. People assume certain (foolish) risks when they brazenly break the law. I would have been sad had he truly been hurt just for being dumb, but I don’t think I would have faulted the taser. Difference is that in the history of stupid people who’ve gone onto the field (a grass field by the way) and subdued by security without tasers not a single one has sustained serious injury. From the news, quite a number of people have gotten seriously hurt or killed by tasers in other situations. I think a good rule of thumb by law enforcement is to use the minimum force necessary to subdue a perp. In this case I wouldn’t had even minded if security had chased him all over the field until the nut job tires himself out. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/47 "2010-05-04T21:39:57Z")
All those baseball bats lying around and the kids gets tasered? He’s lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/48 "2010-05-04T21:41:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You do not know he’s not a threat until he’s in custody. The kid could have pulled a weapon out of his pants, or otherwise endangered [people]… Yeah, and he could have done that without running on the field, too. Should security routinely put the taser on people who get obnoxious in the stands, because they _might_ be _about_ to threaten someone? No, I agree with the premise that if the taser is to be used at all, it should be a step-down from pulling the gun on a clearly dangerous person, not a step-up from a tackle of a not-apparently-dangerous person. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Oddly enough, from the link, it appears the Phillies are not pleased about the use of a taser. I bet they’re not! Despite some voices here and on some baseball sites saying right on, I’m pretty sure that on balance this is bad publicity for the Phillies. Philadelphia teams have been trying to get away from the bad-behavior rep for years; the fact that a fan _was_ zapped is going to suggest to a lot of people that it’s a rowdy place with heavy-handed security, and it won’t appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/49 "2010-05-04T21:50:37Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > I think a good rule of thumb by law enforcement is to use the minimum force necessary to subdue a perp. I’ll go ahead and ask, with full admission that I’ve never worked in law enforcement: how does one determine, in the heat of the moment, what the “minimum force necessary” is for a given situation? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/50 "2010-05-04T22:15:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do you really think a 17-year-old is going to beat the shit out of a professional baseball player? I’m assuming you know what Ryan Howard looks like. Or for that matter (since I think this guy was in left field) Raul Ibanez. Yes, I think a 17 year old is quite capable of hurting someone. You obviously never played roshambo as a kid. I suppose they could have tackled the kid but the taser is probably the least violent way of apprehending him. What is your solution? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/51 "2010-05-04T22:37:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I suppose they could have tackled the kid but the taser is probably the least violent way of apprehending him. > > What is your solution? A lasso. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/52 "2010-05-04T23:00:53Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Yeah, and he could have done that without running on the field, too. Should security routinely put the taser on people who get obnoxious in the stands, because they _might_ be _about_ to threaten someone? The difference is that this kid was in the process of committing a criminal act, resisted arrest and failed to obey the officer’s instruction to stop (I assume the officer gave such an instruction), putting himself and others at risk of bodily injury. Your obnoxious fan in the stands is doing none of those things. If that fan commits a crime, and resists arrest, I have no problem with an officer tasering or otherwise subduing him, either. Street Smarts 101: Resist arrest = ass kicking. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/53 "2010-05-04T23:18:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What I would really like to see is for the player to start nailing these guys. They could take a leaf out of Australian cricket player Andrew Symond’s book. Check out what he did to a guy who ran onto the field: Note: NSFW, which is the reason that i’ve made it a plain-text link. The person invading the pitch was naked. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jA-xNzUFF_I/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/jA-xNzUFF_I?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Anyway, you know what i think would be the best course of action in cases like this? Have all the players and umpires start walking off the field, and make an announcement over the PA system that the game will be suspended until the trespasser turns himself in to the police. Once they realize that there won’t be an exciting chase, and that the game is going to be delayed, the fans will start booing him rather than cheering him. Once he realizes that 40,000 people are pissed off, and that no-one is chasing him and that he’s not a hero, the idiot will probably stop. That said, i don’t have too much of a problem with the tasering in this case. Hell, all Philly sports fans should be tasered on spec anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/54 "2010-05-04T23:37:47Z")
And if I’m the owner, I really don’t want my players risking injury battling trespassers. The player costs me a helluva lot more than an army of security guys. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/55 "2010-05-04T23:51:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The difference is that this kid was in the process of committing a criminal act, resisted arrest and failed to obey the officer’s instruction to stop (I assume the officer gave such an instruction), putting himself and others at risk of bodily injury. Now it’s “in the process of committing a criminal act”? Earlier it was “could have pulled a weapon out of his pants, or otherwise endangered…” At least now he’s getting zapped for what he _did_, rather than what he _might_ do. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Your obnoxious fan in the stands is doing none of those things. If that fan commits a crime, and resists arrest, I have no problem with an officer tasering or otherwise subduing him, either. There’s a difference between “tasering” and “otherwise subduing.” In fact I did mean fans in the stands who were violating the same Phillies “guest code of conduct” which this kid was breaking, and which the purchase of the ticket legally obligates them to follow (according to the very fine print on the back). Attendees at Phillies games are thus _required by law_ to > [@](#): > > refrain from conduct that is inconsistent with the fun, family atmosphere that should prevail at Citizens Bank Park and the Citizens Bank Park experience, including but not limited to: interfering with other guests’ ability to enjoy the game; using foul or abusive language or gestures; appearing to be in a drunken or diminished capacity; failure to produce a ticket on request or sitting in a seat for which a ticket is not held; possession of balloons, beach balls, nets or laser pointers; interfering with a ball in play; and throwing objects on or entering the playing field. Violators are subject to ejection and possible arrest. Let the volts fly! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/56 "2010-05-04T23:54:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The point of tasering people is to avoid having to shoot them instead. It’s not something that was intended for subduing people who didn’t represent a meaningful risk to life and limb. > > So if there’s no reason to shoot someone if you don’t have a taser in hand, there’s no reason to tase them either. So yeah, this is excessive. I’m in favor of it. Otherwise shit like this can happen: [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/09/19/royals\_whitesox\_ap/](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/09/19/royals_whitesox_ap/) ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/57 "2010-05-05T00:36:18Z")
I stand by the credo that tasers are alternatives to guns, not alternatives to a well-placed body tackle. If you can’t run well enough to chase someone down and subdue them (and that cop or security guard had a gut on him) then you shouldn’t be working in an enforcement capacity, and certainly shouldn’t be using electrical devices to do your job for you. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/58 "2010-05-05T00:44:12Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Now it’s “in the process of committing a criminal act”? Earlier it was “could have pulled a weapon out of his pants, or otherwise endangered…” At least now he’s getting zapped for what he _did_, rather than what he _might_ do. Yes, trespassing is a crime. It can also be a tort. In this instance, the criminal version is relevant. > [@](#): > > Attendees at Phillies games are thus _required by law_ to No. Obligated by contract. Not a criminal matter, as the Phillies lack any authority to enact criminal statutes. Breach the code of conduct, and they get to make you leave the stadium. If you commit a crime in the process, you are subject to arrest by the police. If you resist arrest, then you might get tased. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/59 "2010-05-05T06:09:34Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > **Marley23** , for example, seems to be taking the position that this guy was a kid and clearly no threat, so something less potentially harmful should have been used. The fact that he’s a kid is not relevant. **Mooch** asked if security should have “waited until the guy kicked the shit out of some ballplayer not paying attention” and I was pointing out that that’s ridiculous. Security should respond immediately when someone comes out of the stands. I didn’t think that was in dispute. Tasering them is not necessary unless they’re a threat. > [@](#): > > The Seles incident and others referenced in this thread make me think that stopping someone before they could possibly do harm isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If the guy does something threatening, they can go ahead and taser him and I won’t mind. But what I said earlier is there is not much of a comparison between this moron and the stabbing, or for that matter, the attack on the Royals coach. This guy (like other idiots who run out onto ballfields) was aimlessly running around the field and trying to get away from security. Parche walked out of the stands with a knife and stabbed Seles. He didn’t meander and he was carrying a weapon. This guy was an idiot but showed no intent to injure anyone. People who run out onto the field are usually just morons and not psychos. The typical method of chasing them down or tackling them works fine. > [@Telemark](#): > > Dustin Pedroia is what, 5’ 7" and 145 lbs? No professional baseball player (or any athlete) should have to risk his career to subdue a rowdy fan or being attacked by one. Who said he has to risk his career? I said it would be funny if the players knocked these guys on their asses. I didn’t say they’re obliged to do it. They have security guards for a reason. Incidentally, tennis did not have real security when Seles was stabbed, and instituted new measures in response. And like I was saying about the Federer incident, what they do have may not be sufficient now. > [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, I think a 17 year old is quite capable of hurting someone. He said “kicked the shit out of,” not hurt. > [@](#): > > What is your solution? My solution is to keep tackling or running them down, which has worked just fine for approximately forever. If the jerk makes a threatening move toward a player or anybody else, go ahead and Taser them. But it shouldn’t be a first resort. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299/60 "2010-05-05T08:36:13Z")
I don’t get why some people think getting hit with excruciating, full-body pain is superior to other methods that might leave a small amount of damage. If the pain is bad enough to make the kid pass out, that’s too much. Wouldn’t you rather be bruised for a little while versus one second of [torture](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/25/national/main3537803.shtml)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-fan-tasered-for-running-onto-the-field/538299.md?page=4)