# Baseball Hall of Fame: 2007 Veteran's ballot is out. Who should make it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561 "2006-09-29T01:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/1 "2006-09-29T01:10:12Z")
Players eligible for election by the Veterans Committee in 2007: Roger Maris Joe Gordon Dick Allen Thurman Munson Marty Marion Don Newcombe Maury Wills Ken Boyer Joe Torre Sparky Lyle Gil Hodges Ron Santo Carl Mays Luis Tiant Mickey Lolich Jim Kaat Wes Ferrell Al Oliver Mickey Vernon Bobby Bonds Tony Oliva Lefty O’Doul Vada Pinson Rocky Colavito Minnie Minoso Curt Flood Cecil Travis Who do you think should make it, and why? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/2 "2006-09-29T01:26:26Z")
FYI, here are the [Veterans Committee’s Rules](http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/veterans/rules.htm) the most pertinent of which state: "10. Voting — The Committee shall consider all eligible candidates and voting shall be based upon the individual’s record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted. 1. Number to be Elected — All candidates receiving votes on at least 75% of ballots cast on the separate Players Ballot and Composite Ballot will earn election." ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/3 "2006-09-29T01:26:38Z")
Most of these were better than average players who had one or two great seasons, or who had relatively short careers. Flood should go into the Hall because of his stand against the reserve clause. Statistically, Pinson is about on the same level as Flood, but Flood changed baseball. Torre belongs in the Hall because of his combined achievements as player and manager. But he’s still managing. Let’s wait until he retires. Maris and Wills are both remembered for their single-season records that overshadowed everything else in their careers. To some, that merits the Hall. The two names that stand out to me are Oliva and Santo. They both performed at an exceptional level for years and both didn’t get the attention they deserved because they were usually stuck on bad teams. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/4 "2006-09-29T01:40:40Z")
Two for sure: Santo, if for no other reason than the hall is short on 3B Torre, if we’re including his managing. Less persuasively: Pinson, because Richie Ashburn said he belonged and Richie Ashburn was never, ever wrong. Minoso, cause he was just so damn cool. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/5 "2006-09-29T02:10:12Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] Most of these were better than average players who had one or two great seasons, or who had relatively short careers. Flood should go into the Hall because of his stand against the reserve clause. Statistically, Pinson is about on the same level as Flood, but Flood changed baseball. Torre belongs in the Hall because of his combined achievements as player and manager. But he’s still managing. Let’s wait until he retires. Maris and Wills are both remembered for their single-season records that overshadowed everything else in their careers. To some, that merits the Hall. The two names that stand out to me are Oliva and Santo. They both performed at an exceptional level for years and both didn’t get the attention they deserved because they were usually stuck on bad teams. [/QUOTE] Oliva did not play for bad teams. The Twins were in the World Series in his second year (losing to the Dodgers) and made the playoffs several times while he was playing for them. Oliva’s problem is that he didn’t have ENOUGH great seasons. Looking over that list, I see a lot of good and even very good players. But none strikes me as a Hall of Famer. I happen to think that the Hall of Fame should be for the elite, and none of the guys up for consideration strike me as elite. Look, if Gil Hodges or Ron Santo makes it in, I’m not going to stamp my foot and gripe as if some great cosmic injustice had been done… but I happen to think there are already far more undeserving players IN the Hall of Fame than worthy ones kept out. There are certainly worse players than Hodges and Santo in the Hall right now. But I’d rather kick out those unworthies than add new ones. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/6 "2006-09-29T02:27:34Z")
Santo for sure, even if he’s now the worst color man in the history of baseball radio. However, if I may stray from that list for a moment: Pete Rose. He’s a legend in baseball, gambling notwithstanding. He grovels at a level now that’s just a shame. He’s paid his dues and his career is entirely worthy of HOF consideration. I don’t want to derail the thread into a debate about Rose, but I do think it’s time. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/7 "2006-09-29T02:43:12Z")
I checked each player’s score on the [baseball-reference.com](http://baseball-reference.com)’s HOF monitor for an objective analysis. HOFers score greater than 100. Here are the results: Kaat 129.5 Oliva 114 Mays 114 Oliver 113 Allen 99 Lolich 98.5 Wills 98 Tiant 97 Torre 96 O’Doul 92 Munson 89.5 Santo 88 Gordon 87.5 Pinson 87 Hodges 83 Maris 83 Minoso 81 Lyle 78 Newcombe 78 Ferrell 75 Colavito 72.5 Vernon 71 Bonds 66 Marion 57 Flood 53 Travis 52 O’Doul’s record is hurt by the fact that he played for much of his prime in the PCL in the 1920s so i’d bump him up. Plus from what I’ve real about him he was hilarious. Kaat, Oliva and Oliver’s scores are surprising but I’d have no problem voting for them, along with O’Doul, Allen, Wills and Tiant. Torre will go in as a manager. No on Santo and Lolich. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/8 "2006-09-29T03:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=zamboniracer] I checked each player’s score on the [baseball-reference.com](http://baseball-reference.com)’s HOF monitor for an objective analysis. HOFers score greater than 100. Here are the results: Kaat 129.5 Oliva 114 Mays 114 Oliver 113 Allen 99 Lolich 98.5 Wills 98 Tiant 97 Torre 96 O’Doul 92 Munson 89.5 Santo 88 Gordon 87.5 Pinson 87 Hodges 83 Maris 83 Minoso 81 Lyle 78 Newcombe 78 Ferrell 75 Colavito 72.5 Vernon 71 Bonds 66 Marion 57 Flood 53 Travis 52 O’Doul’s record is hurt by the fact that he played for much of his prime in the PCL in the 1920s so i’d bump him up. Plus from what I’ve real about him he was hilarious. Kaat, Oliva and Oliver’s scores are surprising but I’d have no problem voting for them, along with O’Doul, Allen, Wills and Tiant. Torre will go in as a manager. No on Santo and Lolich. [/QUOTE] I’d love to know how Wills scored so high. For a leadoff man, he didn’t have a particularly good on-base percentage. And he was a sub-par defensive shortstop, too. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/9 "2006-09-29T03:59:38Z")
Ron Santo. There are far too few third basemen in the Hall of Fame. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/10 "2006-09-29T05:01:51Z")
Since we have some comments now, I’ll add my thoughts. **Roger Maris** Maris is famous for, well, 61. Other than that he wasn’t the player Freddie Lynn was, really. **Joe Gordon** Gordon is remarkably underrated; he was an awesome defensive player and a hell of a hitter for many awesome teams. His career was short, shortened by the war, and I guess he’s not quite great enough to get my vote, but I’d vote for him ahead of a lot of guys with 100 on the HoF monitor, that’s for sure. **Dick Allen** Allen was basically Albert Belle. I wouldn’t vote for either of them. Had Allen played 2600 games, maybe. He didn’t, so no. **Thurman Munson** Munson was a really good player and everything, but no. **Marty Marion** No. **Don Newcombe** Drank his chance away. **Maury Wills** Aside from the fact that he wasn’t any better a player than Bert Campaneris, he was also the biggest jackass in the game. Not that jackasses can’t make it to the Hall of Fame, but when your resume’s slim to start with, you need a little presentation. **Ken Boyer** A great and now forgotten player. 5% worse than Ron Santo in every regard, though, so obviously he shouldn’t go in just yet. **Joe Torre** I agree that they should wait until he retires as a manager and then induct him. **Sparky Lyle** Sparky Lyle is an intersting case, in that he was the absolute shit in the 1970s - one of the most famous baseball players in the world and at or around the center of the baseball universe for a substantial period of time. And yet, today, you never seem to hear anyone talk about him. He was a good relief pitcher for a really long time but so was Tug McGraw and he’s not even on the ballot. **Gil Hodges** Very good player but not as great as the RBI numbers would suggest. Awesome defensive player, which would mean a lot more if he hadn’t played first base. I would not complain if he made it but wouldn’t vote for him. **Ron Santo** The sabermetrician’s HOF boner. I’d vote for him. I would certainly NOT vote for him just to get more third basemen into the Hall of Fame, though. That’s a terrible reason. **Carl Mays** Lots of better pitchers aren’t in. Like… **Luis Tiant** About as good as Mays but in a career about 15-20% longer. Still, no. **Mickey Lolich** Slightly longer career than Tiant, gave up a few more runs though. Nope. **Jim Kaat** Kaat was about as effective as Lolich, but obviously in a MUCH longer career. Blyleven should go in before he does. Kaat’s 16 straight Gold gloves, more than anything, should tell you how stupid that award is. Kaat was a good fielder but does anyone seriously believe he had the best fielding performance of any pitcher in his league sixteen years in a row? Has anyone in the entire history of baseball been the best HITTER at this position 16 years in a row? You think he was that good even in 1969 when the man made EIGHT errors, and had a fielding percentage of .826? He wasn’t a good fielder that year, he was awful. **Wes Ferrell** About as effective a pitcher as Carl Mays but actually had a shorter career. Ferrell, of course, was a legitimate major league hitter, which has some value but that so much that it makes him a Hall of Famer. **Al Oliver** A pretty good player for a long time, which doesn’t inspire me to say yes. **Mickey Vernon** Al Oliver, 1950’s Edition. **Bobby Bonds** A spectacularly gifted player, but attitude and booze problems shortened his career. Not a HoFer in my book - he was no greater than Reggie Smith - but much better than he is remembered as being. **Tony Oliva** a very good player, but again, it’s hard to explain why he is any greater than Bobby Bonds, or Reggie Smith, or Fred Lynn, etc. etc. **Lefty O’Doul** Only had five full major league seasons. He had some remarkable season totals, but that was in a day when the whole league hit .285-.300. In context his career basically constitutes one third of Fred McGriff’s career. **Vada Pinson** Really good for a long time, but never really great. **Rocky Colavito** His inspiring victory over Ivan Drago, the Siberian Express, after the death of Apollo Creed was… oh, sorry, wrong Rocky. No, he’s not a Hall of Famer. **Minnie Minoso** Absolutely, 100% yes. One of the most underrated players in the history of baseball, a first rate hitter and a terrific fielder who probably lost a few years of his career to racism, and still had a reasonably long career. **Curt Flood** No. I know a lot of people want to put him in the Hall of Fame because he challenged the Reserve Clause, but… so what? He lost the case. Are we seriously going to enshrine a guy in the Hall of Fame who wasn’t as good as Kenny Lofton because he lost a court case? Don’t get me wrong, I admire Flood for taking a stand, but are we going to put Dave McNally in the Hall of Fame, too? **Cecil Travis** No. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/11 "2006-09-29T05:12:01Z")
Looking at the list, I really don’t see anybody whose current omission from the Hall of Fame strikes me as particularly egregious (although I would like to see Flood selected not only for boldly challenging the reserve clause but also to piss off the baseball powers-that-be). As for Ron Santo, [we discussed his absence from the HOF in this 2004 thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=252650&highlight=Santo) and sufficiently presented the reasons for why he hasn’t been admitted and whether he deserves to be. The dearth of third baseman in the HOF has been brought up in this thread as a reason why Santo should be selected by the Veteran’s Committee but that’s not really a good enough reason to let him in. By that same logic, [Ken Boyer](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/42258/) --who was arguably a better glove man but not a better hitter than Santo–should also be selected. Joe Torre’s career as a player, while noteworthy in many ways, isn’t good enough by itself to get him into the HOF. However, since there’s little doubt Torre’s going in as a manager, it’s no great loss for him. [QUOTE=astorian] Oliva did not play for bad teams. The Twins were in the World Series in his second year (losing to the Dodgers) and made the playoffs several times while he was playing for them. Oliva’s problem is that he didn’t have ENOUGH great seasons. [/QUOTE] Tony Oliva falls into the category of players I designate with the acronym H.O.F.B.F. (Hall Of Fame But For…). Oliva would be in the Hall of Fame but for the torn cartilage in his right knee that limited his playing time to only ten games in 1972 and forced him into the position of DH during his last four seasons. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/12 "2006-09-29T05:33:44Z")
I’d love to see Kenny Boyer get in, if for no other reason than he’s the only Cardinal with a retired number who isn’t in the Hall. Even Sutter is in the Hall now. And Santo probably should go in with him, since they’re almost the same player. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/13 "2006-09-29T13:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Since we have some comments now, I’ll add my thoughts. [ **Jim Kaat** Kaat was about as effective as Lolich, but obviously in a MUCH longer career. Blyleven should go in before he does. Kaat’s 16 straight Gold gloves, more than anything, should tell you how stupid that award is. Kaat was a good fielder but does anyone seriously believe he had the best fielding performance of any pitcher in his league sixteen years in a row? Has anyone in the entire history of baseball been the best HITTER at this position 16 years in a row? You think he was that good even in 1969 when the man made EIGHT errors, and had a fielding percentage of .826? He wasn’t a good fielder that year, he was awful. [/QUOTE] Factoring the 16 straight Golden Gloves out, Kaat still scores 113 on the HOF monitor so he should still go in. Saying he should wait in line behind Blyleven, who you will note is not on the ballot, is just silly. Not that Blyleven isn’t qualified - he is - but there is no rational reason to keep one very qualified guy out just because he wasn’t better than another guy who isn’t on the ballot yet. I forgot about Minoso losing so many years in the major because of his race. That changes my mind about him and puts him on my ballot. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/14 "2006-09-29T14:01:32Z")
[QUOTE=zamboniracer] but there is no rational reason to keep one very qualified guy out just because he wasn’t better than another guy who isn’t on the ballot yet. [/QUOTE] Actually that’s my reasoning in a nutshell. Don’t put Guy A in the Hall until Guy B has been elected if Guy B is more qualified. Don’t like my reasoning? Fine. Put Guy B in and then we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/15 "2006-09-29T15:20:41Z")
[QUOTE=zamboniracer] Factoring the 16 straight Golden Gloves out, Kaat still scores 113 on the HOF monitor so he should still go in. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure you’re accurately reflecting the “HOF Monitor.” The purpose of the number, according to its inventor, was to reflect the likelihood of a player being elected, based on the history of the Hall of Fame up to that point (the late 1980s.) It wasn’t to provide an accurate measure of a player’s worthiness. I am quite unconvinced that a score of 101 means a player should automatically be elected and that a score of 99 means he shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/16 "2006-09-29T15:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Actually that’s my reasoning in a nutshell. Don’t put Guy A in the Hall until Guy B has been elected if Guy B is more qualified. Don’t like my reasoning? Fine. Put Guy B in and then we’ll talk. [/QUOTE] That’s a perfectly reasonable position when both A and B are on the ballot. It breaks down when A is on the ballot and B is not. If A and B are both qualified (as I would argue both Kaat and Blyleven are) then it is silly to say that we shouldn’t honor Kaat before we honor Blyleven. There are not degrees to the HOF. You are either in or out. If you’re in, you deserve to go in now and shouldn’t be penalized by having to wait for the honor just because someone else who may be more qualified isn’t in AND ISN’T EVEN ON THE BALLOT YET. Just because Kaat and Blyleven were teammates on the early 1970s Minnesota Twins doesn’t mean that their individual worthiness for the HOF are intrisincally linked together. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/17 "2006-09-29T15:34:38Z")
[QUOTE=zamboniracer] Factoring the 16 straight Golden Gloves out, Kaat still scores 113 on the HOF monitor so he should still go in. Saying he should wait in line behind Blyleven, who you will note is not on the ballot, is just silly. Not that Blyleven isn’t qualified - he is - but there is no rational reason to keep one very qualified guy out just because he wasn’t better than another guy who isn’t on the ballot yet. I forgot about Minoso losing so many years in the major because of his race. That changes my mind about him and puts him on my ballot. [/QUOTE] Blyleven isn’t on the veterans’ ballot because he’s still on the writers’ ballot. This is the list of guys the writers passed on but are still worthy of consideration for election. The writers’ ballot for 2007 is going to be star-studded. Ripken and Gwynn are going in without a doubt, and McGwire… who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/18 "2006-09-29T15:45:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I would certainly NOT vote for him just to get more third basemen into the Hall of Fame, though. That’s a terrible reason. Is it? Why? I think it’s valid to note that different positions have different statistical benchmarks and that, all else being equal, there should be rougly the same proportion of players from each position in the Hall of Fame as there historically have been in baseball. Put another way (and coming up with these numbers out of the air), if the fifteen best first basemen, second basemen, shortstops, and catchers are in the Hall of Fame, and the forty-five best outfielders are in the Hall of Fame, it seems a striking omission if, say, the sixth through fifteenth-best third basemen aren’t in the Hall of Fame. At the very least, one should inquire why that might be. Anyway, I do think Minoso should be a lock as well, for the reasons you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/19 "2006-09-29T15:57:56Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I’m not sure you’re accurately reflecting the “HOF Monitor.” The purpose of the number, according to its inventor, was to reflect the likelihood of a player being elected, based on the history of the Hall of Fame up to that point (the late 1980s.) It wasn’t to provide an accurate measure of a player’s worthiness. I am quite unconvinced that a score of 101 means a player should automatically be elected and that a score of 99 means he shouldn’t. [/QUOTE] If you would look at my ballot you will note that I vote “Yes” on several players who scored below 100 so I don’t treat the HOF monitor as the be-all-and-end-all to the argument, I just said it was an objective way to frame argument. While you are correct that the HOF Monitor’s creator Bill James said in the 1986 Baseball Abstract that he didn’t intend it to be a bright line test, realistically it does a pretty good job of separating the wheat from the chaff. What the HOF Monitor measures very well are honors and awards that the player accumulated contemporaneously. A player who played in the 1960s and who was highly thought of by people at the time deserves respect for that. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561/20 "2006-09-29T16:11:17Z")
[QUOTE=brianjedi] Blyleven isn’t on the veterans’ ballot because he’s still on the writers’ ballot. This is the list of guys the writers passed on but are still worthy of consideration for election. [/QUOTE] Of course what you say is true, but it doesn’t explain why a vote in favor of Kaat on the Veteran’s Committee ballot is contingent on a vote for Blyleven on the baseball writers’ ballot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hall-of-fame-2007-veterans-ballot-is-out-who-should-make-it/374561.md?page=2)