I grew up in L.A. and went to lots of Dodger games as a kid. My dad is from Brooklyn and went to Dodger games with my grandfather who was a rabid Dodger fan. (He died when Dad was 13 so I never met him).
I was excited to have my team in the playoffs and watched that play live. I was so disgusted that I immediately turned off the tv and didn’t watch any more of the playoffs and couldn’t root for the Dodgers. If I can’t root for my team then it wasn’t fun to watch the sport and it led to me not following baseball nearly as much. Just a data point.
There is a dilemma when dealing with large home-road splits. On the one hand, yes runs in a bigger offensive environment count less towards winning, so each run should be devalued accordingly. But you also just can’t wipe ALL those extra runs completely off the board either, since they did lead to extra wins-yes, less than a run in say the Astrodome in the 70’s, but not all the way to zero. IOW if a player has found a way to take advantage of his home park, that should count for something. [Best two examples I can think of would be Wade Boggs peppering the Green Monster, and Mel Ott yanking fly balls down the line at the Polo Grounds, 258 feet to the right field foul pole.]
Sheffield is a hair shy, sitting at 74.6%. I suspect when the remaining votes are tallied, Wagner will also fall short. Mauer and Helton could really go either way. The guys that don’t reveal their ballots early tend to be stingy with votes.
Final note - while I do believe Adrian Beltre is deserving, I’m a little surprised at him getting 99%. As only a four time All Star with no MVPs, he is definitely a beneficiary of WAR.
Beltre must have been one of the best defensive third baseman of all time, if WAR is to be believed. He certainly passed the eye test.
WAR is cumulative and he had a long career of consistent excellence. The 477 homers and 636 doubles are impressive, too. The .339 OBP and 116 OPS+, not so much. Still, most hall of famers are accumulators. To be that good for so many years is pretty amazing.
For sure, and having over 3000 hits is huge, too. And surely he won’t end up at 99% of the vote, but still, even if he’s 95% or higher, it’s wild to me that he would get in with the same kind of margin as fellow 3rd baseman Mike Schmidt, for instance. Like if you just asked me about Beltre before I ever looked at his stats, I’d be like yeah maybe, he did play for a long time. But he just doesn’t feel like a no doubter. Hard to explain.
Hmm, we don’t seem to have a poll here this year for some odd reason (of course Discourse’s wonky search function may have missed it just now), so did one up in the Polls-Only thread:
I tend to be a somewhat Small-Hall type, and on that note am simply not 100% convinced by Andruw Jones’ and Chase Utley’s high showings in (most) of the various metrics, since their candidacies depend a great deal on these metrics. I consider steroids to simply be part of the baseball landscape back then, in the same way that deadened balls, elevated pitcher’s mounds, and Astroturf were. I am on the fence with Wagner-most certainly very dominant when he went out there, but a top 70’s starting pitcher would hit his innings total in just 3 years.
Carlos Beltrán
Adrian Beltre
Todd Helton
Joe Mauer
Manny Ramirez
Alex Rodriguez
Gary Sheffield
The three who got in are quite deserving in my book and I would’ve voted for all 3.
I feel bad for Wagner and Sheffield, Sheffield for timing out and Wagner for coming soooo close. I expect they will both get in one way or another. I think I wouldn’t have voted for either, but it certainly wouldn’t be a travesty if they made it.
I think it a travesty they’re still pretending the likes of A-Rod and Manny aren’t worthy. This omission will end up looking very stupid in the future.
Totally agree, but until Bonds and Clemens get in, it’s pretty much a moot point. I guess at least with ARod and Manny you can say those guys were actually suspended from the game for breaking established rules. Still, I’d vote for them.
I note the Omar Vizquel for the HOF path is now over. A few years ago he looked like he’d get there but the revelations that he’s a scumbag have killed that.
