# Baseball: Hitting for the Cycle and Perfect Games **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694 "2004-06-16T17:25:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/1 "2004-06-16T17:25:56Z")
Imagine this scenario: Joe Blow is on the visiting team. In the top of the 9th inning, the visiting team has a comfortable lead. When Joe Blow comes to bat, he has a triple, a single and a home run, needing only a double to hit for the cylce. He hits a line drive over the right fielder that rolls to the wall. Joe runs to second base as the right fielder is chasing after/fumbling with the ball. He could easily go to third, but instead he decides to stand still on second base so he gets credit for hitting for the cylce. Has anything like this ever happened in Major League Baseball? Could it (or does some issue in the rules state that you have to try to get as many bases as possible within a reasonable chance of getting there)? How many times has someone hit for the cycle in a Major League game? I heard that the number is alarmingly low; like around a dozen. But that seems extremely low to me. * * * What is the definition of a perfect game? I’ve heard two definitions: one is that no one gets on base (meaning no hits, walks or hit batsmen). The other is that the pitcher faces 27 men (meaning he could give up a hit/walk and then get the next batter to hit into a double play). If the second definition is correct, then is it possible to not have a no-hitter but still have a perfect game? How many perfect games have been thrown in Major League baseball? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/2 "2004-06-16T17:32:23Z")
I’m sure someone will come by shortly with the stats. A perfect game has to be, well, perfect. No one can get on base by walk, hit or error. Plenty of no hitters have been pitched with people on base and some were even lost. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/3 "2004-06-16T17:39:30Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > How many times has someone hit for the cycle in a Major League game? I heard that the number is alarmingly low; like around a dozen. But that seems extremely low to me. You must be thinking of perfect games. More than a dozen _Cardinals_ have hit for the cycle. You would probably enjoy looking at this webpage: [MLB.com’s Players who have hit for the cycle](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/history/rare_feats/hit_for_cycle.jsp). > [@](#): > > How many perfect games have been thrown in Major League baseball? And this one: [Perfect games](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/history/rare_feats/perfect_game.jsp). Randy Johnson’s, last month, was the seventeenth. the first two listed are five days apart, in 1880, no other perfect games in the nineteenth century. ---
**Author:** ![Kings\_Gambit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kings\_Gambit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kings_Gambit1)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/4 "2004-06-16T17:40:26Z")
It’s a lot higher than a dozen. There have been three players that have hit 3 in their careers alone. I’m not sure of the exact number, but it’s got to be dozen **s** , not a dozen. **Amazing Baseball Fact of the day** > [@](#): > > On June 3, 1932, Tony Lazzeri had a natural cycle that was also completed with a grand slam; however, this amazing event is often overlooked because it was the same game in which Lou Gehrig hit four home runs. :eek: There have been 17 perfect games in MLB, most recently by Randy Johnson. A perfect game is a no-hitter in which no opposing player reaches first base, either by a base hit, base on balls, hit batter, or fielding error; i.e., the pitcher or pitchers retire all 27 opposing batters in order. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/5 "2004-06-16T17:46:15Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Imagine this scenario: Joe Blow is on the visiting team. In the top of the 9th inning, the visiting team has a comfortable lead. When Joe Blow comes to bat, he has a triple, a single and a home run, needing only a double to hit for the cylce. He hits a line drive over the right fielder that rolls to the wall. > > Joe runs to second base as the right fielder is chasing after/fumbling with the ball. He could easily go to third, but instead he decides to stand still on second base so he gets credit for hitting for the cylce. > > Has anything like this ever happened in Major League Baseball? Could it (or does some issue in the rules state that you have to try to get as many bases as possible within a reasonable chance of getting there)? It’s happened many times. In fact, as a Blue Jays fan I can tell you than both Jays players who have hit for the cycle did this. Kelly Gruber on april 16, 1989 and Jeff Frye on August 17, 2001 both had a double, triple and homer when they hit balls that could have been doubles, but both players stopped at first (actually, Frye was ordered by his base coach to stop) to get the cycle. There is no rule that a player must advance an extra base just because he can. > [@](#): > > How many times has someone hit for the cycle in a Major League game? I heard that the number is alarmingly low; like around a dozen. But that seems extremely low to me. It’s been done maybe 200 times. It’s not that uncommon an event. The Pittsburgh Pirates alone have had their players hit for 23 cycles, including twice each by Fred Clarke, Arky Vaughan, and Wally Westlake. > [@](#): > > What is the definition of a perfect game? I’ve heard two definitions: one is that no one gets on base (meaning no hits, walks or hit batsmen). The other is that the pitcher faces 27 men (meaning he could give up a hit/walk and then get the next batter to hit into a double play). If the second definition is correct, then is it possible to not have a no-hitter but still have a perfect game? The second definition is wrong. A perfect game is a complete game in which no batter reaches base in any way whatsoever. 27 up, 27 down - no hits, no walks, no hit batsmen, no fielder’s errors, no catcher’s interference, nothing. Even a player who hit a single and was thrown out trying to stretch it into a double would constitute a baserunner and would break up a perfect game. > [@](#): > > How many perfect games have been thrown in Major League baseball? Fifteen since the beginning of the modern era: 1. Cy Young, Boston Red Sox on May 5, 1904. 2. Addie Joss, Cleveland Indians, on October 2, 1908. 3. Charlie Robertson, Chicago White Sox, on April 30, 1922. 4. Don Larsen, New York Yankees, on October 8, 1956, a World Series game. 5. Jim Bunning, Philadelphia Phillies, on April 21, 1964. 6. Sandy Koufax, Los Angeles Dodgers, on September 9, 1965. 7. Catfish Hunter, Oakland Athletics, on May 8, 1968. 8. Len Barker, Cleveland Indians, on May 15, 1981. 9. Mike Witt, California Angels, on September 30, 1984. 10. Tom Browning, Cincinnati Reds, on September 16, 1988. 11. Dennis Martinez, Montreal Expos, on July 28, 1991. 12. Kenny Rogers, Texas Rangers, on July 28, 1994. 13. David Wells, New York Yankees, on May 17, 1998. 14. David Cone, New York Yankees, on July 18, 1999. 15. Randy Johnson, Arizona Diamondbacks, on May 18, 2004. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/6 "2004-06-16T17:56:49Z")
> [@Kings\_Gambit1](#): > > A perfect game is a no-hitter in which no opposing player reaches first base, either by a base hit, base on balls, hit batter, or fielding error; i.e., the pitcher or pitchers retire all 27 opposing batters in order. Hey, what if it goes into extra innings? Does a 30 up/30 down count? What about a hit in the 10th? ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/7 "2004-06-16T18:00:25Z")
> [@Kings\_Gambit1](#): > > It’s a lot higher than a dozen. There have been three players that have hit 3 in their careers alone. Bob Meusel (Yankees) and Babe Herman (Dodgers and Cubs), who else? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/8 "2004-06-16T18:42:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > . . .they hit balls that could have been doubles, but both players stopped at first (actually, Frye was ordered by his base coach to stop) to get the cycle. I assume that their teams had comfortable leads. Would the coaches actually jeopardize a win just to let a player complete the cycle, when it’s just an oddity anyway and not really demonstrative of a genuine achievement? Seems like there was something in my mind about a home run hitter one home run away from a recrord who didn’t bat at an away game so he had the chance to hit his record-breaking homer at home in the upcoming series. Vague, uncitable memory. ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/9 "2004-06-16T19:06:16Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Hey, what if it goes into extra innings? Does a 30 up/30 down count? What about a hit in the 10th? Harvey Haddix took a perfect game into extra innings. Here’s a [cite/site](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/05261959.shtml) He ended up losing. > [@](#): > > Thirty-six consecutive batters were retired by Harvey Haddix before the thirteenth inning — when it all ended on an error, an intentional walk of Hank Aaron, then a double. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/10 "2004-06-16T19:29:56Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I assume that their teams had comfortable leads. Would the coaches actually jeopardize a win just to let a player complete the cycle, when it’s just an oddity anyway and not really demonstrative of a genuine achievement? > > Seems like there was something in my mind about a home run hitter one home run away from a recrord who didn’t bat at an away game so he had the chance to hit his record-breaking homer at home in the upcoming series. Vague, uncitable memory. As I recall both games were blowouts. You may be recalling Henry Aaron’s pursuit of the all-time home run record. At the beginning of the 1974 season it appears Aaron might break Babe Ruth’s career home run record on the road; Braves owner Ted Turner mused that he might bench Aaron so Aaron would break the record at home. The commissioner of baseball ordered that Aaron play (frankly, he probably would have insisted on playing anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Mystery\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@Mystery\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mystery_Dog)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/11 "2004-06-16T19:40:08Z")
> [@vl\_mungo](#): > > Harvey Haddix took a perfect game into extra innings. Here’s a [cite/site](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/05261959.shtml) > > He ended up losing. [Pedro Martinez](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/06031995.shtml) also once threw nine perfect innings, but gave up a hit to the first batter he faced in the tenth, and was immediately replaced by a reliever. Neither Haddix nor Martinez is included in the official list of perfect games. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/12 "2004-06-16T20:08:43Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > What is the definition of a perfect game? I’ve heard two definitions: one is that no one gets on base (meaning no hits, walks or hit batsmen). The other is that the pitcher faces 27 men (meaning he could give up a hit/walk and then get the next batter to hit into a double play). If the second definition is correct, then is it possible to not have a no-hitter but still have a perfect game? No it is not possible. Whoever told you this may be confused by the “perfect game” that Eddie Shore (I hope I’m remembering the name right) pitched. Babe Ruth was the starting pitcher for the Red Sox (Oh yes he was – look it up) and walked the first batter. After arguing with the umpire he was booted from the game. Eddie Shore came in to pitch in relief. The runner was caught stelaing second, and Shore retired the next 26 batters in order. For many years, this game was included in the list or perfect games, but it subsequently has been decided that it did not qualify. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/13 "2004-06-16T20:23:01Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > How many times has someone hit for the cycle in a Major League game? I heard that the number is alarmingly low; like around a dozen. But that seems extremely low to me. I don’t think anybody answered this part of the OP’s question. There have been 234 instances of a player itting for the cycle, including twice this year (both figures as of 6/15/04). > [@RM Mentock](#): > > \>There have been three players that have hit 3 in their careers alone. > Bob Meusel (Yankees) and Babe Herman (Dodgers and Cubs), who else? The poster was wrong. Those are the only players who hit for the cycle three times. Ninteen guys have done it twice, and John Olerud is the only active player to do it more than once. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/14 "2004-06-16T20:37:35Z")
The San Diego Padres, who have been playing since 1969, have never had a pitcher throw a no-hitter, nor have they had a hitter hit for the cycle. And although Ernie Shore is no longer credited with a perfect game (instead it is officially listed as a combined no-hitter for Babe Ruth and Ernie Shore), he did get credit for pitching a shutout in that game, one of a select group of pitchers who has pitched a shutout despite not starting the game. Neil Allen got one for the Yankees back in the 1980s when Yankee starter Al Leiter left after getting injured after facing one batter. Allen came into relieve and shut out the A’s. The rules state that if a pitcher enters a game before a batter has been retired in the first inning and does not allow a run for 9 innings, he gets credit for a shutout, although not for a game started. ---
**Author:** ![Kings\_Gambit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kings\_Gambit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kings_Gambit1)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/15 "2004-06-16T20:37:56Z")
> [@RM Mentock](#): > > Bob Meusel (Yankees) and Babe Herman (Dodgers and Cubs), who else? > [@anson2995](#): > > The poster was wrong. Those are the only players who hit for the cycle three times. Ninteen guys have done it twice, and John Olerud is the only active player to do it more than once. You guys are forgetting about good 'ol John Reilly, stud First Baseman for the Cincinnatti Red Stockings in the late 1800’s. 😉 > **[Hitting for the Cycle Records | Baseball Almanac](https://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats16d.shtml)** > > Hitting for the cycle records, research by Baseball Almanac. ---
**Author:** ![randomlyblanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@randomlyblanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomlyblanks)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/16 "2004-06-16T23:45:57Z")
The alarmingly low “dozen” number you’re citing may be related to the rarest feat in baseball: [The Unassisted Triple Play](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats8.shtml) Even more rare than a perfect game. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/17 "2004-06-17T00:55:10Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Hey, what if it goes into extra innings? Does a 30 up/30 down count? What about a hit in the 10th? Until not too long ago (late '80s or early '90s I think), MLB (or its stats bureau) used to be looser in its definition of a no-hitter. Rain/darkness-shorted no-hitters, no-hitters lost after the ninth, etc. were all listed alongside “real” no-hitters with asterisks explaining the extenuating circumstances. They decided to clean up the definition, so you’ll no longer see poor Harvey Haddix’s claim to fame in the official record books anymore. Even so…[this page](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/nohitters) on [espn.com](http://espn.com) lists both the asterisks and the Real McCoy’s. My personal favorite: the Yankees’ Andy Hawkins losing a no-hitter 4-0 to the White Sox on 7/1/90, back in the days of when the Yankees were a bad, bad team. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/18 "2004-06-17T01:20:47Z")
> [@poogas21](#): > > The alarmingly low “dozen” number you’re citing may be related to the rarest feat in baseball: > [The Unassisted Triple Play](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats8.shtml) > Even more rare than a perfect game. Hijack: I will never let myself live this one down. Back in '94, I spent the summer in Massachusetts. One July evening, I decide to go to the ballpark and get myself tickets to see the game. After all, seeing a game in Fenway has always been one of my dreams. The Red Sox were playing Seattle, and luckily there were still a few obstructed view seats available. Midway through the games there’s no out and runners on first and second (and maybe third – I can’t quite remember.) Somehow, I get distracted and stop paying attention to the game. As I’m looking off to the side or whatever, I hear a huge roar come from the crowd and the Red Sox trotting back into the dugout. I have no idea what just happened. I turn to the guy in the row in front me, and ask “What just happened?” And he just looks at me increduously, “Don’t tell me you missed that!!!” “Umm…I was looking away…what happened?” “Valentin just pulled off an unassisted triple play.” “You’re kidding.” “Nope.” I felt like such a schmuck for missing that. Only later did I find out that it has only been accomplished TWELVE times in history. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-hitting-for-the-cycle-and-perfect-games/250694/19 "2004-10-08T23:44:46Z")
> [@Kings\_Gambit1](#): > > It’s a lot higher than a dozen. There have been three players that have hit 3 in their careers alone. I’m not sure of the exact number, but it’s got to be dozen **s** , not a dozen. > > **Amazing Baseball Fact of the day** > \ Even so, that game was overshadowed in that John McGraw chose that day to announce he was quitting as the Giants’ manager after 30 years. So guess who got the headlines.