# Baseball: Is Manny Ramirez the worst fielder you've ever seen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 22, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368 "2010-05-22T14:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/21 "2010-05-23T02:00:35Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > What? When I played after school baseball in grade school, I thought the weakest fielder was always stuck in right field. Does this change by the majors? When? To add another point: Right field also has the longest throw to 3rd base, so you would want someone with a strong arm. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/22 "2010-05-23T12:34:10Z")
Dear Lord, people. Two words, both of them demonstrating that I am no longer a young man: Keith Moreland Oh, my aching head. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/23 "2010-05-23T14:36:49Z")
Two even-older words (the guy whom Moreland kind of filled in for after he got traded from the Phils): Greg Luzinski. He’d even deliberately lean/twist his body towards the LF line, more or less clueing in his CF Garry Maddox (a primo CFer of his time) that anything in the gap was Maddox’s. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/24 "2010-05-23T15:23:36Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Two even-older words (the guy whom Moreland kind of filled in for after he got traded from the Phils): Greg Luzinski. He’d even deliberately lean/twist his body towards the LF line, more or less clueing in his CF Garry Maddox (a primo CFer of his time) that anything in the gap was Maddox’s. Yeah. We love the Bull, but he ran like a Zamboni. The area he covered could fit in a phone booth–thank God for Gary Lee. And don’t even mention Black Friday and Greg’s role in it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/25 "2010-05-23T15:42:44Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Alfonso Soriano is pretty shitty. Incredibly lazy and stood around with his glove off most of the time. That was okay when he had a good bat. Now he’s just shitty all the way around. Cubbies need to flush that turd. Yeah, third highest OPS in the league. Better get rid of that guy. As for Manny, when he was in Boston he terrorized the Yankees at the plate. But at least three times I saw him attempt a sliding catch in left field, snag his cleats in the turf, pop up and then flop over onto his face. Comedy gold. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/26 "2010-05-23T16:00:48Z")
Adam Dunn is about as bad in the outfield as ManRam. Just a big, slow, lumbering dolt out there. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/27 "2010-05-23T21:22:25Z")
Steve Sax, former LA Dodger 2nd Baseman, was not a bad fielder. But at one time in his career, he had the yips throwing the ball to first base. Wiki says this about the “[Steve Sax Syndrome](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Sax)” > [@](#): > > Though never regarded as one of the top fielding second basemen in the league, Steve Sax inexplicably became incapable of making routine throws to first base in 1983, committing 30 errors that season. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/28 "2010-05-23T21:24:29Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Dear Lord, people. > > Two words, both of them demonstrating that I am no longer a young man: > > Keith > > Moreland > > Oh, my aching head. Soriano is worse than Moreland ever dreamed of being. And making it worse, Soriano actually has a semblance of athletic ability, something that can’t be said of any of the other leading candidates. Plus Moreland actually had something resembling a baseball IQ. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/29 "2010-05-23T21:46:31Z")
The Mets tried playing Todd Hundley, a catcher, in left in 1998 because he had a bad arm. Absolutely terrible. In the 1960s first baseman Dick Stuart was known as “Dr Strangeglove” because of his bad fielding. The story is Stuart once caught a cellophane wrap floating by and got a standing ovation. Some other players who develop mental blocks for throwing like Steve Sax are Chuck Knoblauch and Mackey Sasser. In the 1930s Dodger outfielder Babe Herman was known as a bad fielder, although stories from that era tend to be exaggerated for “good fun” (i.e. cover up the fact the team stinks). Herman denied having a ball hit him on the head but never said anything about the shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/30 "2010-05-24T00:47:14Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > In the 1960s first baseman Dick Stuart was known as “Dr Strangeglove” because of his bad fielding. The story is Stuart once caught a cellophane wrap floating by and got a standing ovation. Along similar lines was Dave Kingman–a born DH if there ever was one. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/31 "2010-05-24T12:14:16Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > Boston was more ideal for Manny in the field than probably any other stadium. Very small area to cover… His errors tended to be of the more outrageous variety, but to his credit, he became pretty good at playing the ball off the green monster, an art in itself, and even led the league in outfield assists. Doesn’t mean he was a top fielder, but definitely not the worst. I haven’t seen him lately though, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s having trouble in more spacious fields. Yeah, he had a deceptively good throw to second. Lots of ‘play the ball perfectly off the Green Monster and nail the surprised runner at second’ assists for him. And some screw-up errors, too, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/32 "2010-05-24T14:59:21Z")
Add Carlos Lee to the list of abysmally fielding LFs. I was telling people that Carlos Lee was Panamanian for “Bobby Bonilla” when the Astros gave him that ridiculous contract… At least he can’t do that much damage in what passes for a left field at Minute Maid. Thank God that Michael Bourn can run like a gazelle… Depending on whose defensive system you like, Carlos Lee may be even worse than Manny. Here are the Baseball Reference player cards for [Manny](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirma02-field.shtml), [Carlos](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leeca01-field.shtml), and for shits and giggles, [Alfonso Soriano](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/soriaal01-field.shtml). While Soriano has had horrifying glimpses of terrible defense, I don’t think he has the sustained putrid decaying body of “work” that Ramirez and Lee do in LF. After looking at [Adam Dunn’s player card](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunnad01-field.shtml), I agree with **Fois Gras is Evil** , and think it’s proper to add Dunn to the Ramirez and Lee group. Gaaah those are some bad numbers. You’ve got to go back to '04 before he’s even competent in the OF. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/33 "2010-05-24T15:18:04Z")
There was the Pedro Guerrero/Steve Sax infield the Dodgers had in the 80s - in an interview, Guererro was asked what he thought when he was out there; he said “Please God, don’t let them hit the ball to me!” When asked what else he thought, he said “Please God, don’t let them hit the ball to Sax!” Sax was also the first player I heard the Michael Jackson joke about - (“How is x like Michael Jackson?” “Both of them wear a glove on one hand for no apparent reason.”) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/34 "2010-05-24T21:33:35Z")
The answer is… Manny is a terrible outfielder, but he’s not the worst I’ve ever seen. Remember, the REALLY bad outfielders don’t stick around long, as a rule. He IS, however, the SECOND worst outfielder I’ve ever seen as an everyday player. Greg Luzinski was worse. Luckily for the Red Sox and Dodgers, left field is a position where a lousy defensive player generally can’t do too much harm, and where a superb defender doesn’t increase your chances of winning all that much. Manny (and Luzinski, for that matter) generally LOOKS inept, but rarely makes truly costly errors. And his bat MORE than makes up for what he lacks in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/35 "2010-05-24T22:18:10Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Like everyone else has said Manny is average for left fielders in ability but he just doesn’t care. He know that no matter how many errors he commits he only gettig paid to hit. As a Dodgers fan I can’t wait to see him back in the AL where he belongs. > > It clarify it’s his lack of hussle that makes him horrible. It’s true. He could easily make a series of bad catches in a row, and then when he was in the mood make a play like this: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2Lqiss-Xtp4/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/2Lqiss-Xtp4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/36 "2010-05-25T02:02:26Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Two even-older words (the guy whom Moreland kind of filled in for after he got traded from the Phils): Greg Luzinski. He’d even deliberately lean/twist his body towards the LF line, more or less clueing in his CF Garry Maddox (a primo CFer of his time) that anything in the gap was Maddox’s. As the line went, “Two-thirds of the Earth’s surface is covered by water. The other third is covered by Garry Maddox.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/37 "2010-05-25T02:25:29Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Like everyone else has said Manny is average for left fielders in ability but he just doesn’t care. I think major league left fielders are getting short shrift here. Yes, they’re usually the weakest fielders on the team, but the weakest fielder on a major league team is not necessarily all that bad. Manny is probably the worst-fielding outfielder I have ever seen play a long career. He might not be the absolute worst ever, because I saw Kevin Reimer, but Kevin only lasted four years. Ramirez is just Godawful, and is way below major league standards for left fielders. WAY below. Fielding percentage doesn’t really explain him because an outfielder has to get to a ball to be charged with an error. Manny’s habits of breaking in the wrong direction, or just not being all that interested in getting the ball, or throwing to the wrong base a lot, aren’t easily counted things. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/38 "2010-05-25T02:43:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I think major league left fielders are getting short shrift here. Yes, they’re usually the weakest fielders on the team, but the weakest fielder on a major league team is not necessarily all that bad. I wouldn’t disagree. My point wasn’t that all left fielders are bad. It was that that’s often where a bad fielder is “hidden” (and there have been some comically bad left fielders), and he’s often the weakest fielder on the field, however big that skill gap might be. If you’re the slowest guy on the U.S. 4 X 100 meter team relay, you’re still pretty fast. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/39 "2010-05-25T03:37:55Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Luckily for the Red Sox and Dodgers, left field is a position where a lousy defensive player generally can’t do too much harm, and where a superb defender doesn’t increase your chances of winning all that much. Surprisingly, sometimes a real fleet outfielder will end up in left. Typically it’s because, while he has the wheels to play center, he doesn’t have the arm, and someone else who can throw is already in center. Both Rickey Henderson and Tim Raines fit this pattern (as does, as of 2010, Jacoby Ellsbury in Boston). They tried both Rickey and Tim out in center, and, even tho they acquitted themselves well, their teams moved them back to left after a couple of years. [Rickey](http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/h/hendr001.htm) averaged +10 runs over an average player from 1980-1990: [Manny](http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/r/ramim002.htm) has been at about -10 (with some wild swings albeit). So a good fielder out there can give you a decent edge over some slow slugger type. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368/40 "2010-05-25T14:59:26Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > It’s true. He could easily make a series of bad catches in a row, and then when he was in the mood make a play like this: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lqiss-Xtp4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lqiss-Xtp4) 😃 That play is awesome as much for Cairo’s disbelieving reaction (“OUT?!”) and Manny’s snarky little point-and-grin as the catch itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-is-manny-ramirez-the-worst-fielder-youve-ever-seen/540368.md?page=3)