# Baseball July 2009 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [July 2, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737 "2009-07-02T20:43:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/321 "2009-07-25T11:15:56Z")
Is that what they call it now? I thought the shots were called "Vitamin B’\> 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/322 "2009-07-25T11:17:13Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Lugo: 2-for-5 with a triple and HR Well, that didn’t take long, did it? I knew a change of scenery would do him good, but not _right away_. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/323 "2009-07-25T12:52:34Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > OK, OK, tonight’s game proably featured a few performance outliers: > > Lugo: 2-for-5 with a triple and HR > Holliday: 4-for-5 (!), 1 SB, 1 R, 1 RBI > Ankiel: 3-for-4, 3 RBI > > Lugo, Holliday, welcome aboard, boys! Ankiel, welcome back! > > A 15-hit night for the Redbirds and a 8-1 spanking of the Phillies. Wow. Jesus Christ. Somewhere last night, LaRussa was tipping back several pints and laughing in the general direction of Walt Jocketty, the smarmy bastard. It looks like it’s St Louis or bust in the NL Central. I know the division lead is narrow, but St Louis is just seeming…_preordained_. Plus you have Poo-holes, I hear he’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/324 "2009-07-25T13:02:10Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I _think_ I like the Holliday deal. I do hate to see Wallace go for a rental. But, as **HoboStew** says, Holliday’s been hot lately. And, at least part of the motivation for this deal is showing Pujols that they’re serious about winning, so he’ll want to stick around. If Pujols’ tacitly (or even directly - who knows) indicated to the team, “Add a bat or I’m gone in 2011”, then maybe the Cards spent Wallace for a few more years of Pujols’ services in addition to whatever they get from Holliday. I can get behind that. The word on Wallace is he can’t really play third base, and that he is inevitably destined to be a first baseman or a DH. If so, the Cardinals clearly haven’t any use for him. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/325 "2009-07-25T15:02:49Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many bleeders, bloopers and fistjobs go for base hits as I did in that Cardinals romp. You’d think if you were going to give up 15 hits in Citizens Bank you’d at least make a show out of it. Matt Holliday’s legitimate, though. I haven’t seen that much of him in the field, since he’s always played out west, but I was really shocked by what a meathead he looked like out there. The Fielding Bible’s always had him right up near the top for left fielders, but he didn’t look that way to me. Maybe he was jet lagged or something. I think that’s pretty important for the Cards with that pitching staff, especially if they’re going to have Ankiel, Ludwick, Schumaker, and Lugo on the field simultaneously with any regularity. I’m not sure if DeRosa’s any good, but that’s a pretty freaking terrible defensive team save for Pujols, Molina, and Holliday. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/326 "2009-07-25T15:10:10Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > that’s a pretty freaking terrible defensive team save for Pujols, Molina, and Holliday. I don’t think it’s going to matter with that pitching staff and those hitters they’ve got. I think the Cards are about to pick up a bunch of wins and really seperate themselves from the pack. Especially since they are going to beat up on the likes of their divisional foes (perhaps aside from the Brewers) for the remainder of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/327 "2009-07-25T15:15:18Z")
I guess. They were probably good enough already, though. As a Phillies fan I’m thinking more about what happens after that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/328 "2009-07-25T16:04:12Z")
Tigers swept White Sox. The second with a minor league pitcher they brought up for one day (Bonine). But Inge has a serious knee problem. That would really be tough to overcome. he plays very good defense. They thought about putting him on the 15 day DL, but have no reason to think the time off would fix it. He needs a knee operation. The pitching is good enough to contend but the boost that Guillen brings to the offense is counterbalanced by Inge. We are in for some bumpy weather. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/329 "2009-07-25T18:16:45Z")
More wheeling and dealing over Halladay: > [@](#): > > On Saturday, the Phillies – considered the front-runners to acquire Halladay – reportedly rejected a formal proposal sent their way by the Blue Jays. According to an ESPN report, Philadelphia balked at an offer that would have sent pitchers J.A. Happ and Kyle Drabek, along with outfield prospect Dominic Brown, to Toronto in exchange for Halladay. [MLB.com](http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090725&content_id=6050270&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/330 "2009-07-25T18:27:37Z")
Yeah, the Phillies have been saying quietly all along that they aren’t really high on giving up Drabek, and if they do, they definitely aren’t giving up Happ along with him. I think that’s the right approach. Happ’s a 26 year old with MLB experience and a career 3.28 ERA, and Drabek looks like he’s rounding into a legitimate frontline starter. Brown’s a blue-chipper, too; that would be a pretty good haul for the Blue Jays even though obviously Halladay merits one. I doubt the Blue Jays are willing to take back a package that doesn’t include any major-league ready players, but what I can’t figure is why they’re so keen on getting the Phillies’ two best young starting pitchers. It doesn’t seem like they have any room for a couple more young 20-something pitchers as it is, and the Phillies have legitimate positional talent to offer, even if it isn’t from the major league roster like Happ is. If the Phillies are willing to give up Drabek, I don’t see why the Blue Jays wouldn’t prefer some young bats to getting Happ. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/331 "2009-07-25T18:27:56Z")
Does Halladay have a no trade clause? It may have been mentioned but I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/332 "2009-07-25T18:29:44Z")
Yeah, he’s a 10/5 guy so he has the automatic veto power. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/333 "2009-07-25T18:31:44Z")
Has he mentioned any preferences, or teams he’ll veto? With free agency next year he’d seem to have a lot of leverage. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/334 "2009-07-25T18:35:23Z")
I don’t think he has, at least not publicly. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/335 "2009-07-25T18:41:59Z")
The Yanks just broke through for a run in the 6th in a good pitcher’s duel between Pettitte and Gonzales. Only 2 hits per team through 6. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/336 "2009-07-25T21:52:19Z")
Great come back by the Rays today… or a horrible flop by the Jays. It could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/337 "2009-07-25T21:58:16Z")
…Aaand the Blue Jays blow a 9-1 lead. > [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Has he mentioned any preferences, or teams he’ll veto? With free agency next year he’d seem to have a lot of leverage. Halladay has expressed a preference for staying in Toronto. He and his wife have both expressed a disinterest in moving. He’s not said anything about preferred destinations. (Allegedly, he did give Ricciardi a list of agreed-to cities, but that’s from Ricciardi, who has also denied the same thing. You cannot trust Ricciardi.) However, I doubt Halladay would veto a trade to any contender. To a losing team, he might veto, but there’s next to no chance the issue would come up. Philadelphia has apparently turned down a direct offer from Toronto, more evidence J.P. Ricciardi is a liar (he said he wasn’t shopping Halladay around, only listening to offers.) I mean, if you’re going to lie, at least don’t get caught doling it in public. Apparently the Jays asked for Happ, Kyle Drabek, and Dominic Brown. That strikes me as being an appalling trade for the Jays; Happ is a terrific young pitcher but Drabek and Brown are still just guesses, and it addresses none of the team’s impending or existing lineup holes. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/338 "2009-07-25T22:17:55Z")
**RickJay,** as good as Halladay is, and don’t get me wrong, I think he’s awesome, what would you consider a good return at this point? Considering his age and the fact that he’ll be a free agent next year, so the trade recipient will almost certainly be on the hook for a huge contract? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/339 "2009-07-25T22:26:35Z")
I always respected Jim Rice as a player, but this [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) [article](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof09/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=4353486) contradicts some of the common media presentation about him as a person. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737/340 "2009-07-25T22:37:56Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I always respected Jim Rice as a player, but this [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) [article](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof09/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=4353486) contradicts some of the common media presentation about him as a person. Meh. From that article: > [@](#): > > Rice, 56, is often described by the media as standoffish, even sullen. In mediaspeak, terms like “standoffish” and “sullen” generally translate to “Doesn’t fall all over himself to be best friend to journalists.” Media people are notorious for branding professional athletes as difficult or arrogant if the athlete doesn’t kowtow to every request for comments or interviews. Eddie Murray got the same treatment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-july-2009/501737.md?page=18)