# Baseball Offseason Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985 "2010-11-09T01:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/321 "2010-12-14T05:23:59Z")
Man. When I first heard the Phillies name as the mystery team I was unsure if it was good for him to be signed for 7 years. 5 is still a worry. But. It’s not 7. And, one year of Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels is really pretty awesome. I still worry about the years. But, let’s be positive! Cliff Lee is BACK! yay! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/322 "2010-12-14T05:36:21Z")
I guess he just wanted to stay out of the large, high-pressure markets, eh **Elvis**? Sports teams get no pressure at all from Philadelphia fans. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/323 "2010-12-14T06:33:54Z")
That’s quite a rotation Philly has now. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/324 "2010-12-14T07:10:46Z")
Wow. Cliff Lee turns down significant money from both the Yankees and the Rangers (who actually made the larger offer by AAV) to return to Philly. Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels are going to be a rotation for the ages. What a crazy offseason. All three of the top tier free agents have now signed to surprise last-minute deals with teams that weren’t expected to be in the running. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/325 "2010-12-14T08:29:50Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Wow. Cliff Lee turns down significant money from both the Yankees and the Rangers (who actually made the larger offer by AAV) to return to Philly. Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels are going to be a rotation for the ages. And in 2012, Moyer! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/326 "2010-12-14T08:58:13Z")
In his last three world series appearances, Lee has given up 15 runs. So much for Mr. Clutch in the post-season. Okay, that’s the best I can do as a slightly disgruntled Yankee fan. Hope Andy comes back. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/327 "2010-12-14T10:29:22Z")
B-b-b-but the Yankees ALWAYS sign whomever they really want to sign1! They have a virtually unlimited budget!! This isn’t the way it’s s’pozed to be!!! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/328 "2010-12-14T11:41:18Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Cliff Lee turns down significant money from both the Yankees and the Rangers (who actually made the larger offer by AAV) to return to Philly. I guess he realized you can live as well on $120 million as you can on $150 million. (Actually there’s an option for a sixth year, so maybe it’s more like $140 million.) It’s unusual but to hear some sportswriters you’d think he overturned the capitalist system and agreed to be paid in hugs and candy canes. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/329 "2010-12-14T13:18:05Z")
Now the talk is Plan B for the Yankees, to rape the Royals by offering them money and prospects up the ass in exchange for Zack Greinke. We know they have the money, but do they have the prospects? I suppose they can buy someone else’s prospects and package them in a deal, if they want Greinke badly enough. They certainly have a slot or two in the rotation to fill. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/330 "2010-12-14T13:26:43Z")
Supposedly they don’t have the type of prospects the Royals want. Greinke has the right to veto a trade to New York, too. I don’t see that one panning out. [http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5915164](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5915164) > [@](#): > > As a result, sources say, Moore has focused on adding up-the-middle position players who are close to major league ready. And neither the Yankees nor the Rangers provide the best match for Kansas City. > > The Yankees do have three catchers – Jesus Montero, Gary Sanchez and Austin Romine – among their list of top prospects. Infield prospect Eduardo Nunez would likely be part of a Yankees trade package, and sources said that outfielder Brett Gardner’s name has come up in conversations between the clubs. But it appears that package wouldn’t be enough to pry Greinke loose from the Royals. When did offering a team a bunch of money in prospects in return for a pitcher they probably won’t be able to keep beyond 2012 turn into rape? ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/331 "2010-12-14T14:58:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Supposedly they don’t have the type of prospects the Royals want. Greinke has the right to veto a trade to New York, too. I don’t see that one panning out. > > [http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5915164](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5915164) > When did offering a team a bunch of money in prospects in return for a pitcher they probably won’t be able to keep beyond 2012 turn into rape? It should noted that Texas will probably be in on Greinke as well - and one place they have an advantage over the Yankees is the depth of their minor league system. The battle for Greinke could turn into the Cliff Lee sweepstakes, Part II. I have to say, the fallout of Lee’s deal may be the most entertaining thing to happen during the Hot Stove since, well, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/332 "2010-12-14T15:18:57Z")
I can’t see Greinke being willing to go to New York - hasn’t he said that he doesn’t like high-pressure situations? He’d hate being in that fishbowl. Texas, I can see more easily. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha. I love watching the Yankees squirm. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/333 "2010-12-14T16:37:20Z")
I am pretty happy Lee will not be a Yank. That 7 year contract looked insane to me. I think Texas got lucky too. Philly got Lee on a 5 year deal which makes more sense. Philly is going to be tough to beat. The Mets are basically standing pat and I see them having close to no chance this year to compete. Yanks now need to scramble a bit for a solid innings eater if Pettitte retires. The 5th spot could be auditioned from scrap heat and prospects like Mitre and Nova and even Joba. But with AJ as an enigma they will need either Andy or a solid vet that is good for 180+ innings year in and year out. Boston still has some small holes but I think the Yankees’ Rotation is a much bigger hole. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/334 "2010-12-14T17:06:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I guess he realized you can live as well on $120 million as you can on $150 million. (Actually there’s an option for a sixth year, so maybe it’s more like $140 million.) It’s unusual but to hear some sportswriters you’d think he overturned the capitalist system and agreed to be paid in hugs and candy canes. Seriously. He’s getting $24 million a year, with a 6th year for $27.5 million if he reaches certain performance milestones. If the option doesn’t vest, he has a buyout for $12.5 million. The Yankees’ final offer, including the option in year 7, was $148 million (base contract was 6 years, $132 million). The Phillies essentially matched that offer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/335 "2010-12-14T17:20:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I guess he realized you can live as well on $120 million as you can on $150 million. No matter what his agent told him. 😉 Poor guy probably had a stroke over that decision. Cole Hamels is now Philly’s _#4_ starter. That is one of the great rotations of all time there now. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/336 "2010-12-14T17:25:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Cole Hamels is now Philly’s _#4_ starter. That is one of the great rotations of all time there now. Only down side is that the top 3 are all on the wrong side of 30. Still looks like a 90s Braves rotation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/337 "2010-12-14T17:53:49Z")
It does indeed. And they won the division, what, 14 straight times with those guys. Philly has a much deeper offense than those Braves ever did, though. Update: Yanks to sign Russell Martin. That sure makes up for it, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/338 "2010-12-14T18:00:28Z")
Some of those Braves teams had pretty damn good offenses as well, probably peaking between when Chipper Jones joined the team and Fred McGriff got old (95-97 or so?). ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/339 "2010-12-14T18:50:25Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Some of those Braves teams had pretty damn good offenses as well, probably peaking between when Chipper Jones joined the team and Fred McGriff got old (95-97 or so?). Yeah, the braves problems were generally bench and bullpen rather than offense. The Phillies offense also might not be the powerhouse it was going forward. Howard had a career low ops and giant first basemen are not a class that tends to age well. Utley has been increasingly banged up and his numbers were down significantly last year as well. It certainty isn’t unheard of for 2nd basemen in their early 30’s to fall off the map Rollins hasn’t been good since he won his mvp and they lost Werth. The offense should be fine for a year or two, but this team is already old and expensive and will get more so over the next few years. The phillies are a clear favorite in the nl, but the window is limited. For the Yankees, they now have to go to plan B and I haven’t a clue what that is. They don’t appear to matchup well with the Royals to get Greinke, but Moore has made strange trades before. I don’t think we know any more about Greinke than we did Lee, so I won’t speculate on whether he would accept a deal to NY. The Rays may make Garza or Shields available, but I tend to doubt they would deal them to NY. Beyond that there doesn’t appear to be much out there. I can’t see the Yankees going with Mitre as their 4th or 5th starter to begin the year, but I don’t see a substantial upgrade out there. Right now the Red Sox appear significantly better, and the Rays are right there even with their losses. The Yankees did sign an actual catcher in Martin, which does help albeit it not all that much if he continues on the Kendall 2.0 career path. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985/340 "2010-12-14T18:54:02Z")
I would guess signing Martin is a signal the Yanks are willing to trade one of those hot catcher prospects they have for a Mike Garza type. Greinke everyone seems to agree, including Greinke won’t be comfortable pitching in NYC or Boston. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-offseason-thread/559985.md?page=18)