# Baseball Penant Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419 "2006-09-27T22:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/1 "2006-09-27T22:02:12Z")
If two MLB teams in the same division end up with identical W-L records, how do they determine the winner of that division? For example if the Twins win just one more game than the Tigers do for their last 5 games, they will both have records of 99-63. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/2 "2006-09-27T22:05:12Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] If two MLB teams in the same division end up with identical W-L records, how do they determine the winner of that division? For example if the Twins win just one more game than the Tigers do for their last 5 games, they will both have records of 99-63. [/QUOTE] If both teams will make the playoffs (i.e. no other second place team has a better record than 99-63), then the one with the better head-to-head record is the division winner and the other is the wild card. If one of them will not make the playoffs, then there will be a one-game playoff (which will count in the official standings. So, one team will be 100-63 and the other will be 99-64). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/3 "2006-09-27T22:09:46Z")
Or, for a more complete answer, you can look at [MLB’s answer](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_press_release.jsp?ymd=20030908&content_id=517243&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/4 "2006-09-27T22:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=zev\_steinhardt] If both teams will make the playoffs (i.e. no other second place team has a better record than 99-63), then the one with the better head-to-head record is the division winner and the other is the wild card. [/QUOTE] This happened with the Yankees and Red Sox last year. They ended with identical records, but the Yankees won the division due to a better head-to-head record, and the Red Sox took the wild card. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/5 "2006-09-28T01:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] This happened with the Yankees and Red Sox last year. They ended with identical records, but the Yankees won the division due to a better head-to-head record, and the Red Sox took the wild card. [/QUOTE] Happened with the Astros and Cardinals in 2001, as well. The Cardinals still claim it as a division win, even though MLB recognizes the Astros as having won the NL Central that year. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/6 "2006-09-28T12:43:02Z")
Right now the Cardinals & Houston are in a potentially similar situation. The tie breaker, if necessary, will be played in Houston on Tuesday. The venue was decided by a coin toss a couple of days ago. If the Cards can pull out of their death spiral it won’t be necessary, but this fan is not confident. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/7 "2006-09-28T15:00:37Z")
Ditto for Tigers and Twins. The Tigers won the season series and would be division champions in the event of a tie. So officially the Tigers’ magic number for a division championship is 4 but in reality it is only 3. This tiebreaker could potentially mean the difference between being the #1 AL seed vs being the #4 seed. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/8 "2006-09-28T17:53:06Z")
If the Dodgers and the Padres have an indentical record and the Phillies have a worse record, the Padres are the divison winners and the Dodgers are the wild card. If the Dodgers, Padres and Phillies all have the same record, the Dodgers play one game in San Diego to determine the division champion. The loser goes to Philadelphia to play for the wild card. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/9 "2006-09-28T17:54:51Z")
Actually if the Dodgers, Padres, and Phillies all have the same record, the first playoff game would be played in L.A. between the Dodgers and Padres. The Dodgers won the “NL West” coin flip. The Phillies have won all the “wild card” coin flips. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/10 "2006-09-28T18:20:15Z")
[QUOTE=BobT] Actually if the Dodgers, Padres, and Phillies all have the same record, the first playoff game would be played in L.A. between the Dodgers and Padres. The Dodgers won the “NL West” coin flip. The Phillies have won all the “wild card” coin flips. [/QUOTE] This is all moot since the Giants will eliminate the Dodgers this weekend. But I think they will do the Cards a favor by losing the make-up game on Monday. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/11 "2006-09-29T03:17:00Z")
Just a note: The Twins have the same record now as the Tigers, but the Tigers have the tie breaker, so the Twins are actually one game behind. We now send the lowly Royals off to play the Tigers while we get to take on the White Sox. I think I’d settle for the wild card and getting the Yankees in the first round if I could watch Pieryzinski rupture an Achilles tendon. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/12 "2006-09-29T04:26:11Z")
Not that it’s really important to the topic, but doesn’t “the pennant” usually mean the league championship, not the division? Could somebody clear that one up for me? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/13 "2006-09-29T06:36:46Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Not that it’s really important to the topic, but doesn’t “the pennant” usually mean the league championship, not the division? Could somebody clear that one up for me? [/QUOTE] Yes, that’s right. There’s never been a similar name for a division champion. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/14 "2006-09-29T18:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=nivlac] This is all moot since the Giants will eliminate the Dodgers this weekend. But I think they will do the Cards a favor by losing the make-up game on Monday. 😛 [/QUOTE] You must have a lot of faith in the Phillies then. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/15 "2006-09-29T18:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Rysdad] Just a note: …I think I’d settle for the wild card and getting the Yankees in the first round if I could watch Pieryzinski rupture an Achilles tendon. [/QUOTE] How about something just a _little_ less painful / serious / career threatening? Even from a Tiger fan I’d expect more. And if the Sox could sweep this weekend and the Tigers could still get the Yankees, I’d settle for that. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/16 "2006-09-30T00:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] This happened with the Yankees and Red Sox last year. They ended with identical records, but the Yankees won the division due to a better head-to-head record, and the Red Sox took the wild card. [/QUOTE] Oddly the Red Sox management never accepted this scenario. In their universe, they and the Yankees were co-winners of the division. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/17 "2006-09-30T02:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=CC] How about something just a _little_ less painful / serious / career threatening? Even from a Tiger fan I’d expect more. And if the Sox could sweep this weekend and the Tigers could still get the Yankees, I’d settle for that. [/QUOTE] Well, OK, um, \*what[/]? ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/18 "2006-09-30T02:06:29Z")
I don’t code well, therefore I am not. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/19 "2006-09-30T02:08:35Z")
[QUOTE=nivlac] This is all moot since the Giants will eliminate the Dodgers this weekend. But I think they will do the Cards a favor by losing the make-up game on Monday. 😛 [/QUOTE] I’m looking forward to laughing in your face (more-so than the rest of the Giants’ season has given me reason to) come Sunday night. But thanks for the extra motivator. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-penant-question/374419/20 "2006-09-30T05:49:09Z")
[QUOTE=nivlac] This is all moot since the Giants will eliminate the Dodgers this weekend. [/QUOTE] Too bad so sad, Giant Fan. While it’s still possible that the Dodgers won’t make the play offs, they cannot be eliminated at Pac Bell. How’s that 'roid free Barry working out for you?