# Baseball Question: Would This be a Home Run? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 31, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448 "2008-03-31T21:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/21 "2008-04-01T18:40:19Z")
If you like baseball, [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdYBEJzy-F0&feature=related)is the greatest pitch ever thrown. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/22 "2008-04-01T19:15:01Z")
Thatā€™s awesome. Almost Bugs Bunny-esque. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/23 "2008-04-01T19:33:09Z")
The old behind the back Eephus pitch. Gets 'em every time. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/24 "2008-04-01T20:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] Slight nitpick - a fielder can leap into the stands as long as he doesnā€™t touch any part of the stands until after he catches the ball. He can land in the stands after he catches it, and itā€™s an out. Though I can never remember if the umpires are part of the field or donā€™t exist for fielding purposes. [/QUOTE] Heck, if you guys think thatā€™s complicatedā€¦ in rugby, if a player has one foot in touch (out of bounds) and catches a kick, his team gets the ball, because heā€™s considered to be part of touch. If a player jumps from out of touch, catches the ball thatā€™s in touch, and then lands in touch, the ball is considered in play. The rules for where the lineout occurs are equally obscure (although theyā€™re sort of intuitive once you understand their spirit). ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/25 "2008-04-01T21:14:41Z")
About ā€œautomaticā€ and ā€œground ruleā€ doubles. Major League Baseball rules make no mention of either expression, only describing situations where ā€œthe batter and runners shall be entitled to [advance] two basesā€. While ā€œautomaticā€ is very seldom used ā€” Iā€™ve heard it a couple times ā€”, ā€œground rule doubleā€ has become the formula of choice even though most of the time, a ground rule double is not created _per se_ under a ground rule of the specific field where the game is played, but under general rules. It kind of has becomed a misnomer. [QUOTE= Great Dave] A ground rule double happens when the ball lands fair, and then bounces over the wall (not sure if it has to bounce over the wall between the foul poles or not- either way, as long as a ball lands fair, itā€™s a hit). [/QUOTE] No, it doesnā€™t have to be between the foul poles. Any batted ball that lands in fair territory and then leaves the field of play is a ā€œground ruleā€ double (whether over a fence or wall, under it, or even through it). In MLB, youā€™ll see such a play from time to time in ballparks where the outfield seats along the foul lines are very close to them and /or the fence in rather low, e.g. right field in Fenway Park. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/26 "2008-04-01T21:38:44Z")
[QUOTE=Intelligently Designed] No, it doesnā€™t have to be between the foul poles. Any batted ball that lands in fair territory and then leaves the field of play is a ā€œground ruleā€ double (whether over a fence or wall, under it, or even through it). In MLB, youā€™ll see such a play from time to time in ballparks where the outfield seats along the foul lines are very close to them and /or the fence in rather low, e.g. right field in Fenway Park. [/QUOTE] Thatā€™s what I thought, but wasnā€™t sure enough to not include the disclaimer. ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/27 "2008-04-01T21:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=Me] Any batted ball that lands in fair territory and then leaves the field of play is a ā€œground ruleā€ double [/QUOTE] . Upon further review, I should have been more precise. ā€œAny batted ball that lands in fair territory and then leaves the field of play **beyond first or third base** ā€ would be more like itā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/28 "2008-04-01T22:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=Intelligently Designed] . Upon further review, I should have been more precise. ā€œAny batted ball that lands in fair territory and then leaves the field of play **beyond first or third base** ā€ would be more like itā€¦ [/QUOTE] Right, that would be foul, of course. Highly unlikely, but you never know what can happenā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/29 "2008-04-02T02:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Heck, if you guys think thatā€™s complicatedā€¦ in rugby, if a player has one foot in touch (out of bounds) and catches a kick, his team gets the ball, because heā€™s considered to be part of touch. If a player jumps from out of touch, catches the ball thatā€™s in touch, and then lands in touch, the ball is considered in play. The rules for where the lineout occurs are equally obscure (although theyā€™re sort of intuitive once you understand their spirit). [/QUOTE] Hang on. A player already in touch who catches a kick **that has crossed the line** gets the throw-in, but if the ball is not in touch when he catches it, heā€™s conceded the throw-in. If a player holding the ball lands in touch, the opposition get the throw-in. I expect you are thinking of a player who leaps in the air, knocks a flying ball back into play and then lands in touch - when the ball is indeed in play. The lineout takes place where the ball goes out of play, unless it was kicked directly into touch (and not from a penalty) by a player outside his 22 metre line. Then the lineout goes back to where the kicker was. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/30 "2008-04-02T02:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] Right, that would be foul, of course. Highly unlikely, but you never know what can happenā€¦ [/QUOTE] And here I was thinking I had the rules of baseball pretty much downā€¦ A ball bounces in fair territory, beyond third base. The ball bounces up and backwards (crazy bottom-spin), and leaves the field of play behind third base would be considered foul? I though a ball, once itā€™s landed fairly beyond first or thid was in play. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/31 "2008-04-02T02:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] Though I can never remember if the umpires are part of the field or donā€™t exist for fielding purposes. [/QUOTE] Neither. Umpires are covered in the rules. An umpire struck by the ball when he is positioned inside the infielders creates a dead ball, a hit for the batter, and an advanced base for forced runners. (Runners on first and third - the runner is forced to advance to second, the runner on third is not forced, and remains there.) An umpire elsewhere is a live ball, and whatever happens, happens. I think. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/32 "2008-04-02T02:48:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diomedes] A ball bounces in fair territory, beyond third base. The ball bounces up and backwards (crazy bottom-spin), and leaves the field of play behind third base would be considered foul? I though a ball, once itā€™s landed fairly beyond first or thid was in play. [/QUOTE] Once itā€™s hit fair territory beyond first or third, it is a fair ball. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/33 "2008-04-02T02:56:10Z")
> [@Nobody Special](#): > > Say a batter hit a ball into the stands, and it bounced off a fanā€™s head and back onto the field. Would that be a home run, or would the ball still be in play? Something similar happened in game six of the 2004 ALCS. Mark Bellhorn hit a ball into the left field stands, which struck a fan in the first row and fell back into the field. It was initially ruled a double (the ump thought that it hit the wall), but was eventually called correctly. [QUOTE=muldoonthief] Slight nitpick - a fielder can leap into the stands as long as he doesnā€™t touch any part of the stands until after he catches the ball. He can land in the stands after he catches it, and itā€™s an out. [/QUOTE] I believe, however, that if a fielder carries the ball out of play, that is treated the same as throwing the ball out of play, with the same penalty, i.e. all runners advance two bases (assuming that there are fewer than three outs and runners on base). ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/34 "2008-04-02T04:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Once itā€™s hit fair territory beyond first or third, it is a fair ball. [/QUOTE] Thatā€™s what Iā€™ve always assumed. So in **Great Dave** ā€™s scenario, where the ball bounces fair and then into the stands backwards, itā€™s still a ground rule double, right? ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/35 "2008-04-02T18:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Once itā€™s hit fair territory beyond first or third, it is a fair ball. [/QUOTE] I donā€™t think so. If a ball landed in fair territory beyond first or third base, then by a crazy spin or by hitting a pebble or something went back and went foul between home plate and first or third base, it would be a foul ball. MLB Rule 2.00 (definition of terms) states that ā€œA foul ball is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third baseā€, with no mention of where it landed first. Of course, per laws of physics, this has probably never happened in a real game. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/36 "2008-04-02T18:11:36Z")
John Miller is often precise in his broadcasts about the difference between ā€œground ruleā€ doubles and ā€œautomaticā€ doubles. Of course, if you watch his games on ESPN, your ears may be dulled by the frequent inanity of Joe Morganā€™s commentary so you might miss these subtleties. šŸ™‚ I think Iā€™ve heard Joe Buck be precise about this too, but there again, there is the trouble of Tim McCarver drowning him out with stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/37 "2008-04-03T16:54:21Z")
[QUOTE=fachverwirrt] Something similar happened in game six of the 2004 ALCS. Mark Bellhorn hit a ball into the left field stands, which struck a fan in the first row and fell back into the field. It was initially ruled a double (the ump thought that it hit the wall), but was eventually called correctly. I believe, however, that if a fielder carries the ball out of play, that is treated the same as throwing the ball out of play, with the same penalty, i.e. all runners advance two bases (assuming that there are fewer than three outs and runners on base). [/QUOTE] If a fielder catches the ball and falls out of play, all baserunners get ONE base. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/38 "2008-04-03T17:42:55Z")
[QUOTE=Ponch8] If a fielder catches the ball and falls out of play, all baserunners get ONE base. [/QUOTE] šŸ˜• Then why do I see fielders diving into the stands trying to catch a foul ball? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/39 "2008-04-03T17:56:35Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] šŸ˜• Then why do I see fielders diving into the stands trying to catch a foul ball? [/QUOTE] Just guessing, but that might be for fair balls (that would otherwise be a home run). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448/40 "2008-04-03T19:21:43Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] šŸ˜• Then why do I see fielders diving into the stands trying to catch a foul ball? [/QUOTE] If thereā€™s no one on base, or it would be the 3rd out, thereā€™s no downside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question-would-this-be-a-home-run/443448.md?page=3)