# Baseball question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972 "2003-04-15T23:23:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/1 "2003-04-15T23:23:30Z")
I like following baseball but I’m not obsessive enough to know every little nuance of the terminology. Can someone tell me what the difference is between a plain old home run and the “walkoff home run” that I see mentioned occasionally? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/2 "2003-04-15T23:26:51Z")
A walk off home run is a home run that ends the game, so the player “walks off” the field. Say it’s the bottom of the ninth, score tied and the batter hits a homer. That home run wins the game, so it’s a walk off home run. Had his team been down, then the homer would not have won the game, so it would be just a normal home run. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/3 "2003-04-16T00:57:11Z")
Don’t feel too bad – it’s a fairly new term. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/4 "2003-04-16T01:29:39Z")
“Walk-off home run” is a term that’s probably only been used for ten years or so. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/5 "2003-04-16T01:33:07Z")
Walk off home run was first popularized by Sportscenter anchors and other baseball announcers about two years ago. Most fans hate it already and prefer the much better sounding “game winning home run.” ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/6 "2003-04-16T01:34:08Z")
The term was only coined two or three years ago, so you can’t be blamed for not knowing it. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/7 "2003-04-16T02:17:19Z")
The term is attributed to Dennis Eckersley and he started using it in the late 1980s. The home run he surrendered to Gibson in Game 1 of the 1988 World Series was one of the classic “walkoff pieces” which was the term Eckersley preferred. But the term spread from Eckersley to the general population in the last few years. And now it’s applied to all sorts of game ending plays “Walkoff single” or even “walkoff walk” (see Andruw Jones in 1999 NLCS). In Japan such hits have been called “sayanora” home runs for years. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/8 "2003-04-16T12:41:59Z")
Bottom of the 9th at Wrigley Field. Score is tied at 0-0. Bases are loaded. Sosa is at the plate. Sosa knocks one onto Waveland Avenue. Does Sosa get 4RBI and the game ends 4-0 because Sosa hit a grand slam, or does Sosa get 1 RBI and the game end 1-0 because the game ended when the first runner’s foot touched home plate? If you say “Sosa gets 4 RBI and it’s 4-0,” then please tell me what would happen if Sosa had hit a ground-rule double (which would have scored at least two runs), or would have put the ball into play in such a way that we would have gotten a double had he been allowed to run the bases as far as he could go (since, once again, the game would end when the first runner’s foot touched home plate). ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/9 "2003-04-16T12:47:25Z")
Sosa only gets one RBI and the game ends at 1-0 ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/10 "2003-04-16T12:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Justin\_Bailey \* > \*\*Sosa only gets one RBI and the game ends at 1-0 \*\* I hope you’re trying to answer only the Sammy-hits-a-double question and not the Sammy-hits-a-home-run question. From [rule 4.11](http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/baseball_basics/mlb_basics_start_and_end.jsp): > [@](#): > > If the home team scores the winning run in its half of the ninth inning (or its half of an extra inning after a tie), the game ends immediately when the winning run is scored. EXCEPTION: If the last batter in a game hits a home run out of the playing field, **the batter runner and all runners on base are permitted to score, in accordance with the base running rules, and the game ends when the batter runner touches home plate**. APPROVED RULING: The batter hits a home run out of the playing field to win the game in the last half of the ninth or an extra inning, but is called out for passing a preceding runner. The game ends immediately when the winning run is scored. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/11 "2003-04-16T13:42:08Z")
I believe that technically, in the case that there are two outs already, the winning run can’t count until Sammy reaches first base safely. So the game can’t end until he reaches first AND the winning run crosses the plate. Although I am hard pressed to imagine how he couldn’t reach first base safely with a home run or ground-rule double. Wait, what about if he jogged the bases, but missed touching first. Then, as soon as he touched second, he’d be out, and since the batter didn’t reach first safely, no runs during the play count, inning over and we go on to the 10th. It could only happen to the Cubs… I await confirmation or correction by REAL rules lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/12 "2003-04-16T13:52:53Z")
A home run counts as a full home run, always. **Justin\_Bailey** is, I am afraid, totally incorrect. If Sosa hits a bottom-of-the ninth-grand slam with the score tied 0-0, then he is credited with a home run and four RBI, and the game ends 4-0. This happened, of course, to end the 1993 World Series. The score was 6-5 Phillies, bottom of the ninth, one out, with Rickey Henderson and Paul Molitor on base. Joe Carter socked a homer. The winning run scored when Molitor scored, but the game did not end 7-6; it ended 8-6 Blue Jays, as Carter was given the homer and all three RBI. Just look up the 1993 World Series and look at the score of Game 6. At some point in baseball history this was NOT the case; many years ago it was true that you only got credit for a hit as large as was needed to end the game. It has not been that way for many years, though. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/13 "2003-04-16T13:57:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Quercus \* > \*\*Wait, what about if he jogged the bases, but missed touching first. Then, as soon as he touched second, he’d be out, and since the batter didn’t reach first safely, no runs during the play count, inning over and we go on to the 10th. It could only happen to the Cubs… > \*\* He’d only be out if the other team appealed. I’m not sure how you’d do that on a ground rule double, but to be out for missing a base, the defensive team needs to get a ball there. The classic exception was Robin Ventura’s “Grand Slam Single” in the 1999 NLCS. He hit the ball over the fence for what would have been a grand slam home run to win the game, but after he touched first, the fans and players started celebrating (Ventura didn’t realize it had gone out). Ventura never touched second. Since he did not complete his circuit of the bases, it was not a home run; since it was not a home run, he only got one RBI and was credited with a single. Note that at one time the rules once only gave you credit for a 9th inning game-winning HR if no one was on base. If you hit it out of the park, you were credited with enough bases to score any runner (i.e., runner on third, a ball out of the park was a single). Babe Ruth lost about three home runs because of the rule. Note that Ventura was not called out, though. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/14 "2003-04-16T14:55:43Z")
> [@](#): > > He’d only be out if the other team appealed. I’m not sure how you’d do that on a ground rule double, but to be out for missing a base, the defensive team needs to get a ball there. So, hmm. Kind of interesting Catch-22 then, it seems. I assume for a non-game-ending home run where the batter misses first base, the defense just waits until a ball is given to the pitcher for the next batter, then they throw to first, appeal and the home-run-hitter is called out (retracting his and any other runs and possibly ending the inning right there.) But, if the game ends as a result of the home run, there’s no ball in play ever again. So in that case, because the game doesn’t continue, the defense can’t get the out that would force the game to continue. Taking full advantage of this, if you hit a walk-off home run, you don’t actually need to circle the bases, just run a little loop and come back to home, right? [well, OK, the ump could call you out for leaving the base path, without needing an appeal and a ball in play, but let’s leave that aside] Or has the Institution of Baseball, in its wisdom, already closed this loophole? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/15 "2003-04-16T15:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*A home run counts as a full home run, always. **Justin\_Bailey** is, I am afraid, totally incorrect. If Sosa hits a bottom-of-the ninth-grand slam with the score tied 0-0, then he is credited with a home run and four RBI, and the game ends 4-0. > \*\* I apologize, I was using memories from Little League, and as is often the case with youth sports, the rules were modified slightly. ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/16 "2003-04-16T15:54:30Z")
Thanks all for the information and the reassurance that I’m not a complete doofus for not knowing the term. ---
**Author:** ![bradwalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@bradwalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradwalt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/17 "2003-04-16T16:02:19Z")
OK - let’s bring this thread “full circle” (pun intended). I always thought the batter who hits the “walk-off” home run, circles the bases anyway (like a “victory lap”). I guess he could stop at 1st when the winning run has scored? But the previous posts “imply” he should/must circle the bases to get full “credit” for th HR. Which perhaps is why the OP questions the origins of the term “Walk-off HR”. That implies that he hits the HR out-of-the-park, winning the game, but he just needs to stand at the plate and then walk off the field in victory. Likewise, “Game-Winning HR” could have been hit in any other innnig (it put the winning team ahead for good). At least that would be _my_ definition. I vote for the term “Game-Ending HR” (it must END the game : bottom of the ninth or bottom of an extra inning). ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/18 "2003-04-16T16:14:15Z")
Years and years ago, some “walkoff” home runs were not credited as home runs, they were credited as singles, doubles, etc. depending on when the winning run crossed the plate. Eventually baseball did modify the rule to its current state in which the batter is allowed to come home even if the run is superfluous. They also went back into history and credited players who were denied home runs because of the old rule with a home run. I believe Babe Ruth got at least one homer added to its lifetime total thanks to this correction. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/19 "2003-04-16T16:22:01Z")
If I am not mistaken, if the game-winning home run batter does not circle the bases and touch each one, a member of the defensive team can request a ball from the umpire, tag the base he missed, and have him declared out – with consequent adjustment of the final score and perhaps the need to continue the game. So “walk-off” is in fact a misnomer. I welcome correction or clarification of this if I’m in error. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972/20 "2003-04-16T16:36:44Z")
The “walking-off” is what the defensive team does, not the batter or the guys on base. That is what Dennis Eckersley had in mind anyhow. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/168972.md?page=2)