# Baseball Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631 "2005-06-02T22:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lennon\_Lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Lennon\_Lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lennon_Lives)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/1 "2005-06-02T22:16:05Z")
While attending a minor league game yesterday an interesting question came up. Is it legal for a batter to hit a pitch that has bounced in the dirt before crossing the plate? That is, if the pitcher thrown a pitch that hits in front of the plate then bounces in such a way the hitter can swing and hit the ball while he (the batter) is still in the batter box. Would this be a hit? If he missed it, would it be a strike? The 8-10 people in my section (all claiming to be avid fans) were fairly evenly divided on the issue. Half said that the pitch would be a ball and half thought the ball would still be in play and is legal to swing (and hit). I must confess that in my 45+ years of watching baseball I have never seen the situation. I skimmed the offical rule book but didn’t see it addressed there (although I’m sure it’s there some where). LL ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/2 "2005-06-02T22:23:41Z")
Yes, a batter may swing at a pitch that bounced in the dirt. All actions that result from that are valid. If he does not swing but it goes through the strike zone on a bounce, then the pitch is ruled a ball. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Lennon\_Lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Lennon\_Lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lennon_Lives)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/3 "2005-06-02T23:10:16Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Yes, a batter may swing at a pitch that bounced in the dirt. All actions that result from that are valid. > > If he does not swing but it goes through the strike zone on a bounce, then the pitch is ruled a ball. > > Zev Steinhardt Thanks for response Zev. LL ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/4 "2005-06-02T23:43:04Z")
I’m not doubting your answer Zev (sounds right to me), but where did you come up with it? I’d be interested to see if it’s actually in the rulebook, as like the OP pointed out they’d never seen it. If you can cite some pertinent rules, that’d be interesting. Or if you could relate a story in which this happens and the umpire’s ruling, that’d be interesting too. ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/5 "2005-06-03T00:07:01Z")
From the definition section of the rulebook: > [@](#): > > A **BALL** is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter. If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a “ball.” I realize this doesn’t answer the specific situation, but the rulebook makes no distinction between a bouncing pitch and any other pitch that’s not a strike. You can get a hit on a 58-footer just as you can on a pitch that is over your head. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/6 "2005-06-03T00:10:21Z")
Couple of rules that apply: > [@](#): > > 5.03 > The pitcher shall deliver the pitch to the batter who may elect to strike the ball, or who may not offer at it, as he chooses. Says nothing about the state of the ball. Technically a batter could swing at an intentional walk pitch. I’ve just reviewed the entire MLB rulebook (Oy!). At no point during discussions of pitches or dead balls does the ‘bouncing off the dirt’ concept come up. From that, and the rule above, I would infer that a batter has the right to swing at a pitch that bounces off the turf. Not that it’s smart. FTR, [here’s the MLB rulebook online.](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp) ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/7 "2005-06-03T00:16:46Z")
Look at it this way … if a ball bounces before reaching the plate and the player swings and misses, it’s a strike. This is not a rare event at all, especially when a pitcher has a nasty sinker. So if the player actually makes contact on such a pitch and puts the ball in play, it should be legit. Of course, if the batter didn’t swing, it’d been called a ball. Anyhow, the official rules say: **If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a “ball.” If such a pitch touches the batter, he shall be awarded first base. If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of Rule 6.05 © and 6.09 (b). _If the batter hits such a pitch, the ensuing action shall be the same as if he hit the ball in flight._** ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/8 "2005-06-03T01:28:49Z")
If you don’t believe that batters can swing at pitches in the dirt and hit them, then you haven’t seen Vladimir Guerrero play. He’ll swing at just about anything. And make contact too. Tony Oliva was notorious at his ability to hit bad pitches. Then there are guys who swing at balls that bounce because they stink. ---
**Author:** ![Lennon\_Lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Lennon\_Lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lennon_Lives)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/9 "2005-06-03T04:57:43Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > Look at it this way … if a ball bounces before reaching the plate and the player swings and misses, it’s a strike. This is not a rare event at all, especially when a pitcher has a nasty sinker. So if the player actually makes contact on such a pitch and puts the ball in play, it should be legit. \*\*\* nivlac, this makes sense to me. When you think of it in this context it appears to be a legal hit. LL ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/10 "2005-06-03T13:01:45Z")
Article mentioning players hitting the ball after a bounce: [Manny Sanguillen](http://www.gradewinner.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_9_61/ai_90359273) ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/11 "2005-06-03T13:34:19Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Technically a batter could swing at an intentional walk pitch. Didn’t that happen at an All-Star Game a few years ago? IIRC, it was one of the Phillies, like Kruk or something. He was being intentionally walked and was steamed because he wanted to hit. So for shits & giggles he lunged at the pitch and swung at it. Or maybe I’m hallucinating. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/12 "2005-06-03T13:42:05Z")
The A’s (IIRC) set up Johnny Bench that way in the '74 Series, I forget the pitcher. After running the count full, and a long conference on the mound, they set up the catcher outside for an apparent intentional walk, then caught him looking with a fastball for a strike. Rico Carty, a former batting champ and a Puerto Rican, was once asked why so many other Latino players seemed to be such free swingers. His reply: “A walk won’t get you off the island.” Yogi Berra would swing at anything, too. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/13 "2005-06-03T14:19:58Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of Rule 6.05 (c) and 6.09 (b). I recently saw this occur. Batter had two strikes and swung at a ball in the dirt that the catcher caught. The ump ruled that it was the equivalent of an uncaught foul tip and kept the count at two strikes. ---
**Author:** ![Anvil\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Anvil\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anvil_Soup)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/14 "2005-06-03T18:25:39Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Technically a batter could swing at an intentional walk pitch. From [The Baseball Library](http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/R/Rose_Pete.stm): May 16, 1972: In the Reds 4–3 win over the Giants, Pete Rose knocks in the winning run on an attempted intentional walk. On a 3–0 count, Giants pitcher Ron Bryant comes close to the plate with ball four and Rose drives it on the ground and reaches base on an error. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/15 "2005-06-03T18:34:43Z")
> [@CC](#): > > I recently saw this occur. Batter had two strikes and swung at a ball in the dirt that the catcher caught. The ump ruled that it was the equivalent of an uncaught foul tip and kept the count at two strikes. In that situation the batter must have hit the ball or else it would have been strike three. Depending upon the outs and base runners, if a batter swings at a pitch in the dirt and misses for strike three, the batter has to be put out on the bases. ---
**Author:** ![madcossack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@madcossack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madcossack)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/16 "2005-06-03T18:36:39Z")
As far as bouncing a ball in the dirt in front of home plate, this is pretty much how Trevor Hoffman of the Padres makes his living. I have watched him his entire career, and the more velocity he loses as the years go by, the more he “crafts” his pitches. He seems to be the current master at setting up batters with a slider in the dirt before striking them out with an 86 mph fastball on the next pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/17 "2005-06-03T23:44:49Z")
[Major Hijack] Just because the OP posted a decent question, and a subsequent link sent me to the MLB rulebook, I have one question: Can someone explain to me what a legitimate “error” is? I looked in the defenitions section, but couldn’t find it. And to me-an engineer-an ‘error’ seems kind of nebulous. Heck, they report it in the papers, but I don’t know what it is. I stick to hockey, and occasionally play some softball or football. That’s more or less all I know. [/Major Hijack] Tripler Pun intended. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/18 "2005-06-04T01:19:07Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > [Major Hijack] > > Just because the OP posted a decent question, and a subsequent link sent me to the MLB rulebook, I have one question: Can someone explain to me what a legitimate “error” is? I looked in the defenitions section, but couldn’t find it. And to me-an engineer-an ‘error’ seems kind of nebulous. Heck, they report it in the papers, but I don’t know what it is. > > I stick to hockey, and occasionally play some softball or football. That’s more or less all I know. > > [/Major Hijack] > > Tripler > Pun intended. Errors are explained in section 10.13 ([scroll down](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp)). There is a lot to it, but the basic idea is that an error is a situation where a fielder physically mishandles the ball in such a way as to allow the other team to reach a base that they otherwise wouldn’t have, or to extend an at bat (by failing to catch a foul fly ball). There are exceptions and special cases, but that is basically it. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/19 "2005-06-04T01:22:31Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Errors are explained in section 10.13 ([scroll down](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp)). There is a lot to it, but the basic idea is that an error is a situation where a fielder physically mishandles the ball in such a way as to allow the other team to reach a base that they otherwise wouldn’t have, or to extend an at bat (by failing to catch a foul fly ball). There are exceptions and special cases, but that is basically it. I should add that section 10.14 should be read also. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631/20 "2005-06-04T06:20:00Z")
Hey, thanks **Manduck**! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/306631.md?page=2)