# Baseball Question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [August 5, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308 "2010-08-05T18:34:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/1 "2010-08-05T18:34:27Z")
I have to admit up front I may have not fully seen all this correctly.
In a recent televised game, there was aman on first base only and
- The batter hit a line-drive to between first and second base
- The runner on first, advancing, was hit in the leg by the ball (he was not trying to interfere)
- The ball bouced in the air (without touching the ground) directly to the second baseman who caught it.
- The second baseman threw to first, where the ball was caught by the first baseman before the batter arrived.
- play over
While the runner from first was called out, surprisingly (to me, anyhow) the batter was not called out and was allowed to stay at first base.
Why wasn’t the batter out? He clearly did not beat the throw. For that matter his line-drive was caught without hitting the ground.
Is there some rule that the play was immediately over when the runner from first was hit?
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/2 "2010-08-05T18:43:06Z")
> [@MLB rules](#):
>
> 7.08 Any runner is out when—
>
> (f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an
> infielder. **The ball is dead** and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except
> runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when
> touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;
The runner does not have to have the intention to interfere. If the ball hits the runner and did not pass an infielder (that is, go reasonably close to an infielder) there is the presumption of interference.
This rule doesn’t address the batter-runner, but presumably he is entitled to first. I would have to hunt that one down.
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### Author:  [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/3 "2010-08-05T18:51:59Z")
CookingWithGas:
I guess the batter-runner is safe under the phrase
> [@](#):
>
> nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance.
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### Author:  [@Petek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petek)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/4 "2010-08-05T19:37:04Z")
From the rulebook at [mlb.com](http://mlb.com):
6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when—
(d) A fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder.
If a fair ball touches an umpire after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher, or having touched a fielder, including the pitcher, the ball is in play.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/5 "2010-08-05T19:49:18Z")
Hmmm…I didn’t know that the position of the infielders was part of the equation. What happens if a runner is hit by a ball that has passed an infielder? E.g. a third baseman running in to field a bunt.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/6 "2010-08-05T20:48:15Z")
Moving to The Game Room from GQ.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/7 "2010-08-05T21:48:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#):
>
> Hmmm…I didn’t know that the position of the infielders was part of the equation. What happens if a runner is hit by a ball that has passed an infielder? E.g. a third baseman running in to field a bunt.
From reading the rule, I assume the ball remains in play as if nothing happened. The runners can still run, the fielders can field the ball, etc.
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/8 "2010-08-05T21:50:09Z")
> [@Deeg](#):
>
> Hmmm…I didn’t know that the position of the infielders was part of the equation. What happens if a runner is hit by a ball that has passed an infielder? E.g. a third baseman running in to field a bunt.
The rule states “before the ball has touched or passed an infielder…” If the ball has passed an infielder, the rule does not apply. I assume the ball would be in play.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/9 "2010-08-05T23:22:00Z")
Looks like it’s another one of those weird edge cases in baseball rules. I’m surprised it happens so rarely (the ball hitting a runner after it’s passed an infielder). In “double-play depth” or “corners-in” the corner fielders are inside the base paths. I wonder if there’s another rule that covers a runner getting hit past an infielder?
This is a good trivia question to ask people who think they know them all.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/10 "2010-08-05T23:30:59Z")
The runner is out, the ball is dead, and the batter gets credited with a hit.
When I was a kid, there was this trivia question, how could there be six and no runs in an inning. The answer is based on the last three hits gotten on the basis of this rule. Of course, you almost never see it. Incidentally, if the ball passes a fielder other than the pitcher, the rule does not apply.
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/11 "2010-08-06T00:20:16Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> The runner is out, the ball is dead, and the batter gets credited with a hit.
>
> When I was a kid, there was this trivia question, how could there be six and no runs in an inning. The answer is based on the last three hits gotten on the basis of this rule. Of course, you almost never see it. Incidentally, if the ball passes a fielder other than the pitcher, the rule does not apply.
That was the subsequent question. If the ball passes an infielder, the rule does not apply. If the runner intentionally interferes with the ball, other rules come into play, and the runner is out. However, if the ball hits the runner and he does not intentionally interfere with it, once it has passed the infielder, I would think the ball is in play. There’s always the question of whether the runner intentionally interfered, but that is a judgment call by the umpire.
Yesterday, I saw a most unusual judgment call by an umpire. Not that it was wrong, but it is rarely called. The batter was hit by a pitched ball, but the umpire ruled that he did not make a good faith effort to get out of the way. It was only called that way because not only did the batter did not try to get out of the way, but he ducked his shoulder into the pitch. IMHO, that’s a call that umpires should make more frequently. Some batters make a living getting hit by pitched balls.
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### Author:  [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/12 "2010-08-06T01:43:19Z")
> [@barbitu8](#):
>
> Yesterday, I saw a most unusual judgment call by an umpire. Not that it was wrong, but it is rarely called. The batter was hit by a pitched ball, but the umpire ruled that he did not make a good faith effort to get out of the way. It was only called that way because not only did the batter did not try to get out of the way, but he ducked his shoulder into the pitch. IMHO, that’s a call that umpires should make more frequently. Some batters make a living getting hit by pitched balls.
The most famous invocation of that rule occurred in 1968, when the Dodgers’ Don Drysdale was working on his then-record consecutive scoreless innings streak. Drysdale hit Giants catcher Dick Dietz, but umpire Harry Wendelstedt ruled that Dietz had not tried to get out of the way. Since the bases were loaded, Dietz was denied an RBI, and Drysdale went on to set the mark of 58 straight innings without allowing a run. Orel Hershiser (also a Dodger at the time of his accomplishment) broke the record twenty years later.
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### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/13 "2010-08-06T03:39:26Z")
The catch didn’t matter, only that the ball hit the runner.
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### Author:  [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/14 "2010-08-06T12:47:53Z")
This rule seems like it could be exploited by the baserunner. Say that there’s a runner on first, and the batter hits a sure double-play ball toward the second baseman. The runner could intentionally run into the ball, which would mean he’d be out, but the batter would be given first base.
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### Author:  [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/15 "2010-08-06T12:54:19Z")
In that case, though, the runner could be called out for interference. I’m not 100% certain on what would apply after that, but there is a possibility the batter-runner could also be deemed out.
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### Author:  [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/16 "2010-08-06T18:19:00Z")
> [@Ponch8](#):
>
> This rule seems like it could be exploited by the baserunner. Say that there’s a runner on first, and the batter hits a sure double-play ball toward the second baseman. The runner could intentionally run into the ball, which would mean he’d be out, but the batter would be given first base.
Rule 7.09 (f):
> [@](#):
>
> If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner.
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/17 "2010-08-06T19:04:42Z")
> [@Deeg](#):
>
> Looks like it’s another one of those weird edge cases in baseball rules. I’m surprised it happens so rarely (the ball hitting a runner after it’s passed an infielder). In “double-play depth” or “corners-in” the corner fielders are inside the base paths. I wonder if there’s another rule that covers a runner getting hit past an infielder?
>
> This is a good trivia question to ask people who think they know them all.
Rule 5.09(f):
> [@](#):
>
> If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches a runner after being deflected by an infielder, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the infielder and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball; runners advance, if forced:
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/18 "2010-08-06T19:50:23Z")
> [@Deeg](#):
>
> Looks like it’s another one of those weird edge cases in baseball rules. I’m surprised it happens so rarely (the ball hitting a runner after it’s passed an infielder). In “double-play depth” or “corners-in” the corner fielders are inside the base paths. I wonder if there’s another rule that covers a runner getting hit past an infielder?
At double play depth the fielders would be behind the basepaths, not in front of them.
Fielders are usually behind the basepaths, except in unusual circumstances, like if a bunt is expected or the winning run’s at third with less than two out.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/19 "2010-08-06T19:56:23Z")
Thanks barbitu8! That’s exactly what I was looking for.
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#):
>
> Rule 7.09 (f):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner.
This rule (or a similar one for non double-play situations) was invoked against the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS with Boston. A-Rod slapped the ball away from the pitcher who was attempting to tag him out at first. Derek Jeter was on first base and originally scored on the play but the umpires made him go back to first. If A-Rod had just accepted the tag-out Jeter would have been on second. As a Sox fan this brings up fond memories for me. 😉
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-question/549308/20 "2010-08-06T19:59:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> At double play depth the fielders would be behind the basepaths, not in front of them.
>
> Fielders are usually behind the basepaths, except in unusual circumstances, like if a bunt is expected or the winning run’s at third with less than two out.
It depends on the speed of the runners; it’s not unusual for the third baseman to be even with the bag or just in front.
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