# Baseball rule explanation required **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529 "2004-08-26T01:13:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/1 "2004-08-26T01:13:41Z")
In Australia loss to Cuba in the gold medal match, apparently this happened: > [@](#): > > After right-fielder Tom Bryce clubbed a towering shot to deep centrefield in the fourth, Cuban outfielder Carlos Tabares fumbled the ball against the wall - not once, but twice - before eventually gloving the chance. > > Baseball rules state that any ball touching the wall is in play. And with Glenn Williams on second and Andrew Utting on first, the officiating gaffe almost certainly cost Australia two runs, and led directly to the ejection of Deeble and Elliott with Cuba holding a 2-0 lead. Can someone interpret this for me. If the ball was caught of the wall (and the wall is in play) then wouldn’t the hitter be caught out? What was the contention? Go easy on the terminology. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/2 "2004-08-26T01:17:13Z")
[The source of the above quote.](http://smh.com.au/olympics/articles/2004/08/26/1093456697611.html) ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/3 "2004-08-26T01:20:46Z")
Didn’t see the play, but I’ll give it a shot. If it hit the outfielder’s glove on the fly, bounced out, hit the wall, and back into the glove, it is no catch. The ball is in play in that it is not a dead ball, and the runners can advance as much as they can. It would be similar to if the ball had hit his glove at shoetop level, bounced on the ground, and then back into his glove. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/4 "2004-08-26T01:25:08Z")
They called Bryce out? They made a huge mistake. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/5 "2004-08-26T01:36:05Z")
If you could catch balls off the wall on the fly and still have them be outs, then a whole bunch of left fielders in Fenway Park are going to turn a lot of doubles and singles off the Green Monster in to fly outs. You used to be able to retire batters after catching balls on the first bounce. This rule went out of use for fair balls in 1864 and for foul balls in 1883. But who knows, maybe international rules are different. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/6 "2004-08-26T01:55:38Z")
Reminds me of the time the ball bounced off Reggie Jackson’s head and went over the wall for a home run. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/7 "2004-08-26T01:56:34Z")
That was Jose Canseco. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/8 "2004-08-26T02:00:52Z")
:smack: \<— hit in the head with a baseball. I was just checking in to fix that mistake. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/9 "2004-08-26T02:02:48Z")
The face of any wall is equivalent to the ground. A ball touching the face of a fence or wall has touched the ground. The TOP surface of a wall is handled differently; a ball touching the top of a wall is considered to have touched the ground if it bounces into a fielder’s glove. If it bounces off the top surface of a wall and then out of play (fair, presumably) then it did not touch the ground and is a home run. How an umpire could make such a horrible call I cannot understand. Little League umpires could make that call. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/10 "2004-08-26T02:09:38Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > Reminds me of the time the ball bounced off Reggie Jackson’s head and went over the wall for a home run. Ya know, I’d still like to know why that wasn’t a ground rule double. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/11 "2004-08-26T02:24:44Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Ya know, I’d still like to know why that wasn’t a ground rule double. Because the ball didn’t hit the ground. It’s no different from the numerous home runs that touch a fielder’s glove on the way out of the park. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/12 "2004-08-26T03:18:47Z")
It would only be a double if a fielder deflected a ball over a fence that is less than 250 feet away (or its metric equivalent in international play). ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/13 "2004-08-26T04:12:49Z")
So the two players on bases could still have been run out, but the catch should not have been allowed? ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/14 "2004-08-26T04:14:25Z")
They should have gone to the video umpire for a decision. Are there video umpires in professional baseball? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/15 "2004-08-26T04:24:38Z")
There is no video umpire in baseball. The play should have been called by the umpire stationed at second base. It his responsibility to make calls on plays in the outfield. If the ball did indeed hit the wall (and every account of the game says it did) then the ball was in play, and the runners on first and second were obliged to run since they were forced off their bases. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/16 "2004-08-26T04:26:53Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > There is no video umpire in baseball. The play should have been called by the umpire stationed at second base. It his responsibility to make calls on plays in the outfield. > > If the ball did indeed hit the wall (and every account of the game says it did) then the ball was in play, and the runners on first and second were obliged to run since they were forced off their bases. So could those players have been run out if the outfielder got the ball back quick enough? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/17 "2004-08-26T04:30:23Z")
Yes, they could have been tagged out. On a play like that, runners are taught to run halfway between their base and the next one. Although on a fly ball that deep, they may have even gone 3/4 of the way to the next base. Especially the runner on first. The runner on second would have scored very easily. A fly ball off the center field wall almost always results in a double for the batter. ---
**Author:** ![JimSox5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@JimSox5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimSox5)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/18 "2004-08-26T04:32:28Z")
Okay, I’m confused. Did they call the batter out when they shouldn’t have? Or did the runners not advance thinking the catch was made, then forced out? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/19 "2004-08-26T04:43:35Z")
The umpire ruled that the ball was caught on the fly. He didn’t see it hit the wall. He just thought it was juggled. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529/20 "2004-08-26T05:59:06Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Because the ball didn’t hit the ground. It’s no different from the numerous home runs that touch a fielder’s glove on the way out of the park. Sometimes the answer is so obvious you don’t think of it. Thanks for the correction. (sorry for the slight hijack) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-rule-explanation-required/261529.md?page=2)