# Baseball Score Format **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 11, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365 "2009-10-11T01:51:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/1 "2009-10-11T01:51:50Z")
As far back as I can remember, when baseball scores were reported in text they showed the visiting team on top and the home team on bottom (if ‘up and down’). If reportedd side-by-side the visiting team was on the left. Lately here in the Boston MA area I’ve been seeing the winning team score reported on top regardless of home/visitor. I don’t know how long they’ve been doing it, and for that matter I’m not even sure they do it all the time. Mostly I am thinking of the Boston Globe. I think [www.mlb.com](http://www.mlb.com) was sticking to the visitor-on-left side-by-side style, at least during regular season play. Is this going on anywhere else? Maybe its always been that way? If not, how or why did this get started? ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/2 "2009-10-11T02:16:10Z")
Baseball box scores (which developed out of cricket traditions) are read from top to bottom, left to right. Because the home team always bats last, they are the “bottom” team. Because baseball was the first sport to gain widespread attention in the US, aspects of the baseball box score like putting the home team at the “bottom” carried over to games like (American) football, basketball, and hockey. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/3 "2009-10-11T02:40:55Z")
Add according to the Wikipedia entry on the [baseball box score](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_score_%28baseball%29), early on, home teams sometimes were listed “first”, which proved confusing, hence eventually home team on the bottom was standardized. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/4 "2009-10-11T03:53:22Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Add according to the Wikipedia entry on the [baseball box score](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_score_%28baseball%29), early on, home teams sometimes were listed “first”, which proved confusing, hence eventually home team on the bottom was standardized. Early on home teams sometimes batted first. It was determined by a coin flip at first. I believe later it was at the option of the home team, but that I’m not sure about. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/5 "2009-10-11T14:41:57Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Early on home teams sometimes batted first. It was determined by a coin flip at first. I believe later it was at the option of the home team, but that I’m not sure about. That would go back an extraordinary length of time, probably before the box score itself was invented. Never in the history of organized baseball, that I can find, has the home tam not batted last. I’d agree with **fiddlesticks** in that the current convention is probably just the logical outcome of the home team batting last, and it does seem to have carried over to other sports, even though there’s no reason for it. Baseball is the oldest of pro team sports in North America and so a lot of its conventions were adopted in the other sports - All-Star games, Halls of Fame, even a lot of team names. For a long time other sports also conformed to baseball’s tradition of home whites/visiting other colours, though the other sports have started getting away from that recently. ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/6 "2009-10-11T14:43:42Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Baseball box scores (which developed out of cricket traditions) are read from top to bottom, left to right. Because the home team always bats last, they are the “bottom” team. Because baseball was the first sport to gain widespread attention in the US, aspects of the baseball box score like putting the home team at the “bottom” carried over to games like (American) football, basketball, and hockey. Understood - thanks. Now, what’s up that at least around here they’re not observing this now? And what’s the status in other places? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/7 "2009-10-11T18:19:12Z")
> [@UncleFred](#): > > Now, what’s up that at least around here they’re not observing this now? And what’s the status in other places? Washington Post lists the visiting team on top, the winner in bold. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/8 "2009-10-11T19:22:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That would go back an extraordinary length of time, probably before the box score itself was invented. Never in the history of organized baseball, that I can find, has the home tam not batted last. Peter Morris deals with this issue in his book \*A Game of Inches, Volume 1: The Stories Behind the Innovations That Shaped Baseball: The Game on the Field \*. Entry 1.31 Home Team Last traces the history of which team bats last. Up until the 1870s, according to Morris, the system was one in which the issue was decided by a coin toss, with the winner usually choosing to bat last. Presumably, this meant that, on occasions where the visiting team won the toss, the home team would not get to have the last at-bats of the game. > [@](#): > > The decision of the Albany club seems to have reflected the consensus of the time, as Henry Chadwick wrote in 1867, “The Lowells won the toss and went to bat. Here [in New York], our players generally take the field when they win the choice, in order to have the last chance at bat” (_The Ball Player’s Chronicle_, June 6, 1867). Note how similar this reasoning is to today’s philosophy. The issue drew little attention in the 1860s, however, suggesting that it was not considered particularly important. > > p/ 55 Morris goes on to say that the switch to “less elastic balls” led many captains to choose to bat first in the 1870s, because it would allow them to hit while the ball was still new and bouncy. > [@](#): > > A 1914 article noted: “…Many years ago, it was equally the rule for the home team to bat first, and the argument on which the managers maintained the system was the supposed advantage of ‘getting the first crack at the new ball!’ When the game was played with only one ball, and was held up till that ball came back after every journey, a hard-hitting club could, very often, get a flock of runs by starting right in at the jump, taking first bat and collecting hits before the other team had any chance. By the time that ball was turned over to the other club it was black and hard to hit—hence an actual and indisputable advantage for the team first at bat” (_Detroit News_, September 1, 1914). > > Reflecting this apparent consensus, an 1877 rule change dictated that the home team bat first. After one season the pregame toss was restored, and most sources suggest that it continued to be the norm for the winners to choose to bat first. > > \ > > On June 5, 1885, the American Association adopted a new rule making it the home captain’s choice, and the National League followed suit in 1877. In the mid-1880s most captains elected to bat first… > > p. 56 Again, the reason offered for this 1880s trend of bating first was to get first crack at the new ball. Morris traces the further evolution of this issue, noting that: > [@](#): > > By 1891 batting last had become the norm, though there were still exceptions. > > p. 57 Morris notes that new rules about ending the game after four and a half innings (in the event of rain, etc.) acted as incentive to bast second. He finishes the section: > [@](#): > > The introduction of the cork-centered ball and the increased use of new baseballs eliminated the one perceived benefit to batting first. By 1914 “all clubs go to the field first when on the home grounds; the custom has become firmly rooted, and no manager ever thinks of changing” (_Detroit News_, September 1, 1914). Nevertheless it was not until 1950, with a general recodification of the rules, that what had become the universal practice of the home team batting last was written into the rules. > > p. 58 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/9 "2009-10-11T23:35:03Z")
There is no standard format for how scores are reported. In general, sports scores are reported listing the winning team first (e.g. Chicago 3 New York 2). And that’s how they’re reported verbally. Newspapers use different styles. Having the visiting team on top was a throwback to the days when there were multiple editions during the day. If the game started at 3:00, the edition printed at 4:00 might say: Chicago 2 New York 4 (2nd) That indicates a second inning score. The next edition, published at 5:00, might say Chicago 4 New York 4 (9th) Indicating the score was tied in the ninth. The final might be Chicago 4 New York 6 (F) The format makes it easy for the newspaper to report on the score as it comes in: you only had to reset the number of runs and the inning. Nowadays, you’ll see this convention on places like ESPN which reports games in progress. However, in the morning edition, the previous day’s game would be listed with the winning team first. In any case, the newspaper chooses one style or another based upon what they prefer. Since the game is generally over, it’s common to list the winning team first (AP recaps are set up that way), but some newspaper stick with the format of listing the visitors first. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/10 "2009-10-11T23:50:15Z")
**mhendo** , that’s fantastic stuff. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/11 "2009-10-12T00:14:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > **mhendo** , that’s fantastic stuff. Thanks! No problem. If you haven’t got Morris’s book, i highly recommend it. Someone as interested in the history of the game as you are would find it fascinating. The way the book is put together, dealing with each small facet of the game individually, and tying together a bunch of evidence from often obscure sources, means that it’s an excellent reference book. Reading it like a regular book, from cover to cover, is very interesting, but gets a bit dry after a while. It’s fantastic, however, for dealing with the sorts of historical developments that this thread is about, because he really has been quite exhaustive in his research, and the way the book is organized in sections makes it very easy to look up particular problems. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/12 "2009-10-12T04:07:16Z")
Moving to The Game Room from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-score-format/513365/13 "2009-10-12T11:14:57Z")
It should be noted that the English (and for soccer by virtue of it being an English-derived sport, world-wide other than US) convention is to list the home team first. Thus, Arsenal 2 - 3 Wigan would be a home loss by Arsenal, and a dream win for the Latics. 😃