# Baseball scoring question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** baseball-mlb
**Created:** [August 12, 2026, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307 "2026-08-12T02:56:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/1 "2026-08-12T02:56:18Z")
Scenario - score is tied, say, 3-3 after 9 innings. Both teams bring in new pitchers for the 10th. With the ghost runner on 2nd, a fly ball out moves the runner to third. Again, a sac fly and the run scores. Last guy strikes out. Home team doesn’t score. Visitors win 4-3. Who gets the loss? The relief pitcher didn’t put the winning run on base, so he shouldn’t get the loss. But who would? How does this work now? What if the ghost runner steals 3rd and then home? Same question.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/2 "2026-08-12T03:17:23Z")
I’m pretty sure the loss always goes to whoever is on the mound at the time of the winning run, even if a previous pitcher is actually more responsible. This is offset by being considered an unearned run for the reliever’s ERA.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/3 "2026-08-12T03:28:11Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> I’m pretty sure the loss always goes to whoever is on the mound at the time of the winning run, even if a previous pitcher is actually more responsible.
Nope. The official rule says:
> [@](#):
>
> A pitcher receives a loss when a run that is charged to him proves to be the go-ahead run in the game, giving the opposing team a lead it never gives up.
If a pitcher is pulled mid-inning, with runners on base whom he allowed to reach base, those runners are his responsibility.
So, if the go-ahead run is a runner who is the responsibility of Pitcher A (i.e., he allowed that runner on base, via a hit, walk, etc.), even if Pitcher A has been relieved by Pitcher B when the go-ahead runner scores, Pitcher A gets the loss.
In this case, AIUI, the reliever who opens the 10th inning is considered to be “responsible” for the ghost runner, even though he did not actually face that runner at the plate, and did not allow that runner on base via a hit, walk, etc.
> **[Loss (L) | Glossary | MLB.com](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/loss)**
>
> The Official Site of Major League Baseball
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/4 "2026-08-12T03:54:40Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> In this case, AIUI, the reliever who opens the 10th inning is considered to be “responsible” for the ghost runner, even though he did not actually face that runner at the plate, and did not allow that runner on base via a hit, walk, etc. -
They could have done the logical thing and score it as a “ghost run”, charged to nobody.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/5 "2026-08-12T03:58:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> They could have done the logical thing and score it as a “ghost run”, charged to nobody.
As noted by @Elmer_J.Fudd, it’s an unearned run (as the pitcher did not actually put the runner on base), but baseball scoring requires that there be a pitcher who is charged with the loss.
FWIW, I think that the extra-inning “ghost runner” is a terrible idea.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/6 "2026-08-12T10:26:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> FWIW, I think that the extra-inning “ghost runner” is a terrible idea.
Calling it a “ghost runner” doesn’t make much sense. That term refers to something completely different: when you’re kids playing a pick-up game and don’t have enough actual people on your team to act as baserunners.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/7 "2026-08-12T10:44:15Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Calling it a “ghost runner” doesn’t make much sense.
Exactly. A ghost runner is one that doesn’t physically exist. Baseball officially call that runner the automatic or designated runner.
Cite:
> **[Designated Runner | Glossary | MLB.com](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/designated-runner)**
>
> The Official Site of Major League Baseball
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### Author:  [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/8 "2026-08-12T12:59:37Z")
I prefer Manfred Man, since he’s the bozo responsible.
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### Author:  [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/9 "2026-08-12T13:02:11Z")
Ok. But then does the run go on the reliever’s ERA? That certainly doesn’t seem fair, unless it’s not counted as an earned run - which it may not if the designated runner is put there via rule and is not there because of “earning” his place.
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### Author:  [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/10 "2026-08-12T13:05:19Z")
No. Unearned runs do not go on a pitcher’s **E** arned **R** un **A** verage.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/11 "2026-08-12T14:05:23Z")
One of the reasons I don’t like the automatic runner (it’s not a ghost runner, guys) rule is this.
That said, no one really pays attention to relief pitcher W-L records.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/12 "2026-08-12T14:40:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> That said, no one really pays attention to relief pitcher W-L records.
Agreed; the more relevant stat for a reliever is a blown save. In this case, as the reliever doesn’t enter the game with a lead, he wouldn’t be charged with one.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/13 "2026-08-12T14:42:42Z")
> [@CC](#):
>
> But then does the run go on the reliever’s ERA? That certainly doesn’t seem fair, unless it’s not counted as an earned run - which it may not if the designated runner is put there via rule and is not there because of “earning” his place.
As I said upthread, and as @Ponch8 said, it’s an unearned run, and so, no, it doesn’t count against the reliever’s ERA.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/14 "2026-08-12T23:14:21Z")
And if it was done on 2 sac flys, the reliever:
1. Doesn’t take an increase in ERA
2. Doesn’t take the loss
3. Doesn’t get charged with a blown save
4. Doesn’t take an increase in WHIP.
It’s essentially a nothing outing stats-wise unless you’re looking at the really advanced metrics. His K% will go down slightly, but 🤷♂️.
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### Author:  [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2026, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/15 "2026-08-12T23:48:50Z")
Ok, so back to my question - who gets the loss?
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2026, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/16 "2026-08-13T06:12:21Z")
As I noted above, the pitcher in the 10th.
It may feel like an unfair loss to pin on him, because the runner was not technically “his fault,” but it’s the way the rules have to work, as he started the inning, and his team gave up the lead for good in that inning. You can’t blame the guy who pitched in the 9th; the score was tied, and that runner was not on base, when he left the game.
The new “designated runner” rule leads to this weird corner case.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2026, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/17 "2026-08-13T06:14:15Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#):
>
> And if it was done on 2 sac flys, the reliever:
>
> 1. Doesn’t take an increase in ERA
> 2. Doesn’t take the loss
> 3. Doesn’t get charged with a blown save
> 4. Doesn’t take an increase in WHIP.
#2 in this list is not correct. The guy will get the loss. He started the 10th inning.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2026, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/18 "2026-08-13T07:41:01Z")
Here’s a weirder scenario… Tied game, bottom of the 10th inning. Automatic runner is on second base. New pitcher. Before he even pitches once, the runner tries to steal 3rd for some reason. Pitcher tosses the ball to the 3rd baseman, and runner runs back to 2nd. 3rd baseman tosses the ball to the 2nd baseman, but the ball goes sailing over his head into the outfield. Runner then takes off, and manages to get home, and the game is over.
Does the pitcher on the mound take the loss, despite not even having a pitch in the game? The error is on the part of the 3rd baseman, and nothing the pitcher did had anything to do with the run. I’m guessing he would, but that seems so messed up.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2026, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/19 "2026-08-13T07:47:08Z")
Yeah, I screwed the pooch on that one.
The other 3 are correct.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2026, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-scoring-question/1032307/20 "2026-08-13T14:44:44Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#):
>
> And if it was done on 2 sac flys, the reliever:
>
> 1. Doesn’t take an increase in ERA
> 2. Doesn’t take the loss
He takes the loss. It’s bizarre, but it’s a stupid fucking rule. The rules for wins and losses don’t make a great deal of sense at all.
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