# Baseball/Softball Out Of the Olympics: What's the Real Reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653 "2005-07-08T20:47:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/21 "2005-07-09T13:15:21Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > When did MLB refuse to allow their athletes to compete? > > The players could go. I know one player did take a year off MLB to play for the Olympics for his home country. I think it was an Australian. It’s not MLB’s fault that most of the players aren’t willing to do that. Dave Nilsson. He never played in the major leagues again. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/22 "2005-07-09T13:23:12Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Can you justify this statement please ? Yes, of the three, equestrian requires the most. My sister does competitive riding. While it does require a great deal of skill, it does not require world-record-breaking athletic prowess. It’s more about sort of being in tune with the horse and willing it to perform than strength or speed. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/23 "2005-07-09T13:28:10Z")
The best take on it I heard was that dropping baseball was sensible. It’s a low level of competition, you don’t have any of the world best players competing. In basketball, tennis, and soccer, even if it isn’t the biggest event, you generally have great players competing. Softball, OTOH, does attract the worlds best, there is no higher level of competition. Perhaps softball needs some further organization, but you can’t tell me that it isn’t deserving of a spot. Especially considering the wide variety of niche sports they already allow. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/24 "2005-07-09T13:34:49Z")
The mechanical propulsion means that the ATHLETE cannot be propelled i.e. no car or motorbike races. Archery and marksmanship are in because they’re sports requiring physical skill, for the same reason that curling and lawn bowls are in. Other sports such as Rowing are very much minority sports, but require a huge level of fitness and athleticism, and are often incredibly exciting to watch. If you want baseball, name 75 countries with a men’s national league. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/25 "2005-07-09T13:37:53Z")
I started [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271394&highlight=olympic) thread last year about what sports should be added and dropped. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/26 "2005-07-09T14:26:00Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The best take on it I heard was that dropping baseball was sensible. It’s a low level of competition, you don’t have any of the world best players competing. In basketball, tennis, and soccer, even if it isn’t the biggest event, you generally have great players competing. Baseball also has the problem that in countries where it tends to be most popular, the summer Olympic games coincide with when the leagues are playing. The only way you could get the best US players in the Olympics is if the major leagues would agree to suspend play for a month every 4 years. This ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/27 "2005-07-09T19:25:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Dave Nilsson. > > He never played in the major leagues again. That’s the one. Thanks for the name. I kept thinking Ricky something. Ricky Nilsson! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/28 "2005-07-10T06:14:46Z")
I just don’t buy the argument about it not being playe din enough countries. How is it that sports such as pentathalon, archery, synchronized swimming are in the Olympics. These sports aren’t even big enough to be fringe sports i would bet they aren’t in the top 30 of any country. Baseball is a huge sport in many countries, many Latin American countries. But it is not even a fringe sport in Europe. And I still believe that that drives the agenda. Marginal sports that are more euro-centric, like field hockey, are kept. I don’t think it is a spiteful thing or anything like that. I just think it is a kind of a benign bias. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/29 "2005-07-10T06:27:55Z")
Well, let’s be honest, the Olympics have a HUGE European bias in terms of sport selection. I mean, field hockey? Hell, why is there “luge” in the Winter Games? Luge doesn’t really exist outside of the Olympic cycle at all. The entire sport would vanish if you took it out of the Olympics. That said, baseball was always on the bubble. The Olympic tournament simply doesn’t represent an impressive level of baseball; most of the major baseball playing nations do not send their best players. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/30 "2005-07-10T16:29:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That said, baseball was always on the bubble. The Olympic tournament simply doesn’t represent an impressive level of baseball; most of the major baseball playing nations do not send their best players. And when I, a scary passionate fan of baseball, don’t even watch Olympic baseball, that’s a bad sign. I don’t watch it generally because they either don’t broadcast whole games or they put them on weird stations at weird hours. And I imagine that’s a big part of them dropping baseball. The games are too long. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/31 "2005-07-10T16:43:57Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > The best reason given by the IOC memebers might have been the steroids issue, but if that were true than track and field would have been eliminated years ago. Also, the fact that it was as secret ballot that elimnated these sports rankles. Reason 1) Compared to most other events, it’s boring. Reason 2) Baseball is a game of percentages. Them amount of time of the Olympics doesn’t guarantee the best team will win. If it did, the professional baseball season could be cut by 80% A month of regular season, a month of playoffs, done. ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/32 "2005-07-10T17:07:19Z")
I’m all for Olympic baseball if you’ll send over Arod, Jeter, Matsui, Sosa and a few other AL East all-stars. Just leave the Red Sox players out of it _grins_. Really, i would have to go with the ‘low level of competition’ argument coupled with the ‘17 days isn’t long enough to decide on the best team’ one. No MLB teams would send over their best players. It’s bad enough when a star player gets an injury and misses a few games. Still, i would have liked to see a Baseball stadium built in London. Perhaps that alone would spark interest in the sport over here. Ah well. ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/33 "2005-07-10T19:32:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, let’s be honest, the Olympics have a HUGE European bias in terms of sport selection. I mean, field hockey? What you call hockey the rest of the world calls ice hockey. What the rest of the world calls hockey, you call field hockey. Far more countires in the world play hockey than play ice hockey. You are the ones who play the minority version of the sport, on a global level. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/34 "2005-07-10T19:35:43Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > Far more countires in the world play hockey than play ice hockey. You are the ones who play the minority version of the sport, on a global level. We play field hockey here. It’s pretty much exclusively a sport for girls. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/35 "2005-07-10T19:52:14Z")
Number one is that it isn’t widely played in Europe. A lot of the European Olympic teams were pretty casual about who got to play. Like if you’ve ever eaten a Greek salad, you could play for the Greek team. Not too much popularity outside the Americas except maybe Australia. Similar to cricket- big in the former British Empire but unknown everywhere else. Softball is just way too uncompetitive. The US girls are simply head and shoulders above everyone else put together. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/36 "2005-07-11T03:00:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Reason 1) Compared to most other events, it’s boring. > > Reason 2) Baseball is a game of percentages. Them amount of time of the Olympics doesn’t guarantee the best team will win. If it did, the professional baseball season could be cut by 80% A month of regular season, a month of playoffs, done. The reason the baseball season is as long as it is has nothing to do with “percentages.” It’s because they can make more money by playing more games. Why would they ever want to shorten the season? ---
**Author:** ![Section\_408](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Section\_408](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_408)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/37 "2005-07-11T03:14:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The reason the baseball season is as long as it is has nothing to do with “percentages.” It’s because they can make more money by playing more games. Why would they ever want to shorten the season? I’m not sure that it’s really about salaries if the average basketball player makes $3.86 million compared to that of the average salary of a baseball player at $1.19 million, especially considering that basketball plays half the number of games baseball does and with fewer fans in attendance. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_408](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Section\_408](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_408)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/38 "2005-07-11T03:17:25Z")
Ok, the AP puts the average baseball player’s salary at about $2.48 million. Still, it’s lower than the average basketball player’s salary. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/39 "2005-07-11T12:01:57Z")
> [@Section 408](#): > > I’m not sure that it’s really about salaries if the average basketball player makes $3.86 million compared to that of the average salary of a baseball player at $1.19 million, especially considering that basketball plays half the number of games baseball does and with fewer fans in attendance. I think he means the teams making more money. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/40 "2005-07-11T12:16:25Z")
> [@Jinks](#): > > Still, i would have liked to see a Baseball stadium built in London. Perhaps that alone would spark interest in the sport over here. Ah well. It was only ever going to be a temporary construction in one of the royal parks. > [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I just don’t buy the argument about it not being playe din enough countries. How is it that sports such as pentathalon, archery, synchronized swimming are in the Olympics. These sports aren’t even big enough to be fringe sports i would bet they aren’t in the top 30 of any country I’m not going to start questioning the statistics of this, when I don’t have any evidence one way or another. But what is gained both by these sports and by the games is that the Olympic gold becomes the pinnacle of achievement in the discipline. Whereas, as already noted, both American and European attitudes to Olympic baseball make success at the games fairly unimportant. For the same reason, football’s continued presence in the games is never particularly secure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653.md?page=3)