# Baseball/Softball Out Of the Olympics: What's the Real Reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653 "2005-07-08T20:47:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/41 "2005-07-11T19:23:16Z")
The idea of “fringe sports” is exactly why I’m happy they’ve taken baseball out of the Olympics. I like the Olympics precisely because they have sports that I’m not already bombarded with for 9 months out of every year. I want more variety. Get rid of baseball, get rid of tennis, get rid of the bloody Dream Team. All the Olympic sports have rivalries, competitions, seasons every year, we just don’t hear about them. There’s not a peep about swimming or track-and-field in the U.S. except during the Olympics, and then those events are over-emphasized during the coverage of the games. I say bring on the luge, bobsled, equestrian, archery, modern pentathlon, fencing,… ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/42 "2005-07-11T20:40:36Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > Far more countires in the world play hockey than play ice hockey. You are the ones who play the minority version of the sport, on a global level. Probably more countries do play field hockey, but you’d be surprised at the number of countries that do play ice hockey and have IIHF sanctioned national teams. Everyone is familar with the Pool ‘A’ teams - Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden, Finland Czech Republic and Slovakia. However, there are at least 4 or 5 more Pools. Israel, India, Pakistan and South Africa are just a few of the non-traditional hockey countries that compete in IIHF tournaments. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/43 "2005-07-11T20:45:12Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > However, there are at least 4 or 5 more Pools. Israel, India, Pakistan and South Africa are just a few of the non-traditional hockey countries that compete in IIHF tournaments. Yeah, and Lebanon play in the rugby league world cup. Unexpected teams appearing in such lineups means one of two things: either it’s a far more widely-followed sport that one expected…or…it’s just as narrowly-followed as was though 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/44 "2005-07-11T22:27:26Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Probably more countries do play field hockey, but you’d be surprised at the number of countries that do play ice hockey and have IIHF sanctioned national teams. Everyone is familar with the Pool ‘A’ teams - Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden, Finland Czech Republic and Slovakia. However, there are at least 4 or 5 more Pools. Israel, India, Pakistan and South Africa are just a few of the non-traditional hockey countries that compete in IIHF tournaments. I understand that a lot of countries play ice hockey, no question; I was just trying to point out to **RickJay** that his incredulous stance regarding what he calls field hockey was perhaps a little unfair, when you look at the global stage. ---
**Author:** ![Burnt\_Sugar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@Burnt\_Sugar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burnt_Sugar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/45 "2005-07-12T00:31:05Z")
I’m a huge Olympics fan, and I really like the idea of dropping sports where the Olympics isn’t a huge focus for the athletes. Take gymnastics for example. The Olympics is so important for our Queensland elites that the squads are separated into those aiming for the 2008, 2012 and 2016 Olympics. How’s that for focus? > [@](#): > > The Olympics have seen their ratings plummet and are working desperately to pad their line-up with fewer friendly sports like women’s volleyball, and women’s bikini judo, and women’s (not children’s) trampoline. I’m a trampoline coach and I’ll just like to conquer your ignorance here. Trampolining is a legitimate sport under the “Gymnastics” banner. It requires a really high level of skill. Unlike most assume, trampolining is not easy, and most backyard trampolines and trampolinists are incomparable to the “real thing”. One of our squads trains four days a week. That said, IMHO it is not the most interesting sport to watch. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/46 "2005-07-12T02:36:40Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Probably more countries do play field hockey, but you’d be surprised at the number of countries that do play ice hockey and have IIHF sanctioned national teams. Everyone is familar with the Pool ‘A’ teams - Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden, Finland Czech Republic and Slovakia. However, there are at least 4 or 5 more Pools. Israel, India, Pakistan and South Africa are just a few of the non-traditional hockey countries that compete in IIHF tournaments. Well some of those hockey teams are more notional than real. At the [IIHF Worlds](http://www.iihf.com/hockey/tournam/tournaments.htm#), the Elite Division is 16 teams. Divison 1 and Division 2 are 12 teams each. Division 3 is for pretty much anyone else. Only 5 countries sent teams to the tournament., and there was such disparity that you saw scores like Mexico 44-Armenia 0. Surprises this year were Germany and Austria dropping from the Elite Division to Division 1 (replaced by Norway and Italy). Israel surprisingly moved up to Division 1. Only 2 rinks in the country and next year they will be up against teams with established pro hockey programs like Germany, Austria, Poland, and Japan. As for baseball, wasn’t it added for Atlanta? I thought the host nation could petition the IOC to add a sport as an exhibition or perhaps a medal event. Baseball is on weak grounds for the Olympics not only because of the low qualty of play, but also the almost total lack of international play and tournaments. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/47 "2005-07-12T13:42:36Z")
The baseball world cup, or [The World Baseball Classic](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/wbc/article.jsp?content=071105_a) sounds like it could a a lot of fun. Shit, even Selig and Fehr have come together on this one. It looks like they’re replacing spring training with a good, old-fashioned tournament between nations. I have to give those two idiots props here. It only lasts a few weeks, so, supposedly, anyone can win. Realistically it’ll be the US, Dominican Republic, Japan, maybe Panama or Venezuala, or Puerto Rico. All in all this looks like a lot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/48 "2005-07-12T13:54:02Z")
Baseball is more popular in Venezuela and Cuba curiously enough… and they aren’t on friendly terms with the US ! 🙂 Otherwise its very scarce in Latin America. In Brazil its mostly japanese immigrants and their descendents that play it. ``` Well in the end Baseball seems awfully boring to watch ! :dubious: ``` ---
**Author:** ![WonJohnSoup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f17d59/32.png) [@WonJohnSoup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WonJohnSoup)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/49 "2005-07-12T16:07:28Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > As for baseball, wasn’t it added for Atlanta? I thought the host nation could petition the IOC to add a sport as an exhibition or perhaps a medal event. Baseball is on weak grounds for the Olympics not only because of the low qualty of play, but also the almost total lack of international play and tournaments. They don’t have that anymore, starting this next Olympics. It used to be that the host nation could add any one sport they wished. That’s how judo and taekwando got added I believe. China was hoping to add wushu, but it looks like at best it’s only got a chance now at being an exhibition sport. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/50 "2005-07-12T21:15:06Z")
Baseball is out for one simple reason: lack of “international standing,” as defined above. There is no international amateur baseball system _for adults_ onto which the Olympics can attach itself. There are Little League teams that compete internationally, but as adults, players play in the professional leagues, which don’t have any international competition. That’s it. Really. The MLB “World Series” is a competition between USA teams, period. The fact that they have players from Japan & the Dominican Republic doesn’t make it an international championship. It doesn’t fit with the sporting culture of the Olympics. Get over it. Now, I would love to see real international baseball competition, between Japan & the USA, say. But it would require a standard approach. Right now, every league has its own rules. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/51 "2005-07-12T21:20:05Z")
And, as for “mechanical propulsion,” I think that refers to motors, mainly. Bicycling is in the Olympics, & target shooting is a test of accuracy, not of speed. As for archery, while it may not be what some people think of as “athletics,” it takes a lot of developed physical skill to pull & fire a bow with consistent accuracy. Obviously pistol & rifle are simpler in a way, & I suppose one could take them out. But as a modern pentathlon fan,\* I’m \* obviously not against target sports of this nature. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/52 "2005-07-12T21:24:32Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I just don’t buy the argument about it not being playe din enough countries. How is it that sports such as pentathalon, archery, synchronized swimming are in the Olympics. These sports aren’t even big enough to be fringe sports i would bet they aren’t in the top 30 of any country. Baseball is a huge sport in many countries, many Latin American countries. But it is not even a fringe sport in Europe. And I still believe that that drives the agenda. Marginal sports that are more euro-centric, like field hockey, are kept. I don’t think it is a spiteful thing or anything like that. I just think it is a kind of a benign bias. Well, it doesn’t have to be the biggest sport in any country, just have an active enough bunch of fringe weirdos to have international competitors in those countries. Synchronized swimming does. Baseball doesn’t. And pentathlon was dropped a while back. There are very few people who can afford to be pentathletes, want to do it, & are any good. Horses are expensive, & it’s a totally cross-disciplinary event. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/53 "2005-07-12T21:24:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Get over it. Why are you being so hostile in a very non-hostile thread? Who isn’t “getting over it”? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/54 "2005-07-12T21:33:11Z")
That was a rhetorical “get over it,” just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/55 "2005-07-12T23:19:17Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > There is no international amateur baseball system _for adults_ onto which the Olympics can attach itself. There are Little League teams that compete internationally, but as adults, players play in the professional leagues, which don’t have any international competition. They don’t? The Europeans would be shocked to hear that since they currently have their [baseball championship](http://www.baseballeurope.com/year/European2005/esa2005CZEschedule.htm) going on right now. Competing countries include Netherlands, Sweden, Russia, Great Britain, Germany, Greece, Spain, Czech Republic, France, Croatia and Ukraine. Of course, those are only the qualifiers. The European Baseball Confederation includes Armenia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine and Serbia-Montenegro. And, of course, only two months ago China edged South Korea to win bronze at the 23rd Asian Baseball Championship. It was considered a pretty big upset. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/56 "2005-07-13T03:12:48Z")
> [@WonJohnSoup](#): > > They don’t have that anymore, starting this next Olympics. It used to be that the host nation could add any one sport they wished. That’s how judo and taekwando got added I believe. China was hoping to add wushu, but it looks like at best it’s only got a chance now at being an exhibition sport. :smack: Of Course! Japan lobbied to have judo instituted as an event for the Tokyo Olympics (with no weight classes as per Japanese competion) only to have big Dutchman Anton Geesink walk away with the gold. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/57 "2005-07-13T15:45:23Z")
As I understand it, the “banner” system protects some sports from ever being on the chopping block. They’re all grouped together instead of being measured on their own merits. Synchronized swimming, for example, is part of aquatics. Since no one is going to get rid of competitive swimming, all aquatics are safe. Same with some of the sports under gymnastics that some people find “marginal” (like trampoline or rhythmic gymnastics). Obviously this doesn’t address the argument of what ‘deserves’ to be an olympic sport (I know that people can and have made sound arguments for why the three examples I just gave are sound Olympic sports)–but under the “number of sports” rule it means that some will never be considered for elimination, so others are naturally easier targets for elimination. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/58 "2005-07-13T16:04:39Z")
> [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](#): > > As I understand it, the “banner” system protects some sports from ever being on the chopping block. They’re all grouped together instead of being measured on their own merits. Synchronized swimming, for example, is part of aquatics. Since no one is going to get rid of competitive swimming, all aquatics are safe. But they did turf one synchronized event, though. There use to be solo synchronized swimming in the Olympics (yes, really) in the 1984, 1988, and 1992 Games. It was tossed out before the 1996 Games. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/59 "2005-07-13T21:14:38Z")
> [@Burnt Sugar](#): > > I’m a trampoline coach and I’ll just like to conquer your ignorance here. Trampolining is a legitimate sport under the “Gymnastics” banner. … That said, IMHO it is not the most interesting sport to watch. See, the problem there is that **emacknight** said “women’s volleyball, and women’s bikini judo, and _women’s (not children’s)_ trampoline.” By making that little fix and having the trampolinists be women instead of girls (has anbody on the Queensland team preparing for the 2016 Olympics been born yet?), especially women in bikinis, a lot of us would probably find it a lot more interesting to watch. Look what it did for beach volleyball. 😉 Aside: After all the hoohah over the years about American men insisting the objects of their ogling be extremely busty, did anybody else notice how many of the volleyball players the guys were drooling over were, um, not excessively endowed? Shows the value of going around mostly naked–guys forget to bring their tape measures. ---
**Author:** ![deadbeater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@deadbeater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deadbeater)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653/60 "2005-07-14T02:20:15Z")
Why did the Brits tak out softball/baseball? Threee reasons: 1)This isn’t cricket! 2)The brits just aren’t good at these two—doubt there are even baseball parks in the land. 1. They are mauling about putting Rugby Sevens in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-softball-out-of-the-olympics-whats-the-real-reason/311653.md?page=4)