# BASEBALL: Trade Rumors Anyone? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 24, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623 "2002-07-24T20:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/21 "2002-07-26T22:33:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cards \* > \*\*Superdude, you guys are still trying to get even for the Lou Brock trade, aren’t you? > > Actually, since the Cards haven’t been able to get Ankiel on track and I don’t think Drew will ever play more than 120 games a year, I’d make that trade. If there is no strike, this might be the Cards best chance to go to the series, so I gotta do it even if I look stupid next year (wife would argue that I’m already there). \*\* Man, that’d be a terrible trade - for the Cubs. Lieber’s a very effective pitcher with good stuff, while Ankiel still isn’t ready for prime time and Drew is often injured. If I were a Cubs fan, I’d be pissed as hell if that deal was made. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/22 "2002-07-27T00:41:30Z")
**Nanook** , the deals you’re talking about sound like the insane ramblings of some sports radio callers, and that’s not something unique to Mets fans (see regular WFAN caller “Jerome from Manhattan” and his various trade ideas for the Yankees). Then again, if you told me last December that the Mets were getting Alomar for Lawton, Escobar and a couple of prospects, I would have told you that you were nuts. 😛 Given the Mets’ recent surge (4.5 games out of the wildcard spot) and the re-signing of Leiter, I don’t forsee either Leiter or Vaughn going anywhere. Say what you will about Leiter, but he has been in the top 10 in NL ERA for starters this year and last year. As for Vaughn, few players are as hot as he has been over the past month, and his overall season production is approaching what the Mets were expecting when they traded for him. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/23 "2002-07-27T01:05:45Z")
Plus he makes too much money - most teams can’t take on his salary. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/24 "2002-07-27T02:19:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\* > > One of the most important things to look for in a pitcher this time of the year is playoff experience. Byrd has virtually no experience - he had a decent first half, but he’s already slumping. Sele’s having a bad year, but he has pitched in some big games in the past. That experience is invaluable. > > And don’t assume Stoneman didn’t try to deal for Colon; I’m not familiar with their minor leagues, but did they have the prospects to give up? \*\* And he’s lost every single one of those playoff games. Sele’s just an extremely overrated pitcher. I’d rather gamble with Byrd than go with a sure loss with Sele. Beside’s, Sele’s not having a bad year, it’s actually just a little worse than his career ERA. He has gotten a lot of wins in the past because he’s lucked out into teams that have had really productive offenses. That’s why he sucks in the postseason when he goes up against top-calibre pitching that shuts down his team’s offense. He can’t win a pitcher’s duel against good pitching. As for Stoneman. The Angels have the prospects. But they are all pitchers, except for two hitters. And Stoneman NEVER trades pitchers. And if he traded what few hitters the Angels have in the system, I’d have to go and kill him myself. But look at the trade the A’s just made. The Angels could have upgraded at second base for just one of their many, many pitching prospects. Stoneman is incompetent and should be run out of town on a rail, his record since 1999 has shown that he does not grasp how to choose personnel and has resulted in moronic signings and trades (Edmonds trade, etc.). There are larger problems within the organization, but Stoneman is among the biggest. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/25 "2002-07-27T02:38:19Z")
Sele’s ERA this year is 4.76; his career ERA is 4.36 (and that includes this season, of course). The 4.76 is his worst ERA since 1999, when it was 4.79. Last year it was 3.60, more than a run better than it is this year. In the postseason, his stats actually improve ([http://bigleaguers.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5/5062/pyst.html](http://bigleaguers.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5/5062/pyst.html)): 27 games, 10-6 record, 3.30 ERA. He’s struck out 136 in 161 innings, walking 63. These are good numbers. Now, Byrd’s younger, but that can work against a pitcher in the postseason. Sometimes it takes a series or two for them to get the real feel for the playoffs. I won’t argue that Sele has the better stuff or the better arm, but that doesn’t always translate to wins for a pitcher. Byrd had troubles as a prospect with Atlanta back in the day; the Phillies had him for a spell, and he teased them too with his talent. Kansas City stole him for Jose Santiago, who’s been at best a fair middle reliever for Philadelphia. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/26 "2002-07-27T03:56:46Z")
Sele’s season last year was a fluke. Look at his ERA since 1996: 1996 - 5.32 1997 - 5.38 1998 - 4.23 1999 - 4.79 2000 - 4.51 2001 - 3.60 2002 - 4.73 Tell me which of those stands out. Sele hasn’t had a good season since 1995, his third year with the BoSox. In fact, if it wasn’t for those first three seasons, his career ERA would be a lot higher. AND he’s the third highest paid player on the team at 7 million. They could have grabbed Astacio for about 2 million less than that and had a much better pitcher in the bargain. The postseason record you have just posted is extremely inaccurate. Sele is 0-6 and has a 4.46 career postseason ERA. Not much better than what he does during the regular season. As I said, he can’t win a pitcher’s duel and that’s what games tend to become in the postseason. As I said, Stoneman’s a chump. (In case you haven’t noticed, I blame Stoneman for a lot of things that are wrong with the Angels. Which is unfair to a certain extent, but Anaheim definitely needs a competent GM to deal with player signings.) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/27 "2002-07-27T12:44:28Z")
Dammit…where’s my post? OK, I’ll try again tomorrow night…for now I’m off to Ocean City! ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623/28 "2002-07-27T14:50:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > Tell me which of those stands out. Sele hasn’t had a good season since 1995, his third year with the BoSox. In fact, if it wasn’t for those first three seasons, his career ERA would be a lot higher. AND he’s the third highest paid player on the team at 7 million. They could have grabbed Astacio for about 2 million less than that and had a much better pitcher in the bargain. I’m not debating whether Astacio would be better than Sele, but rather whether Byrd would be. (Actually, Astacio is risky because he’s freuqently injured, but he’s still a good risk to take.) But I’m not so sure the 4.51 is such a terrible ERA, either, considering how much offense has bee put up in MLB lately, particularly the AL. I’d even take 3 of those 4 years (1998, 2000, 2001). > [@](#): > > The postseason record you have just posted is extremely inaccurate. Sele is 0-6 and has a 4.46 career postseason ERA. Not much better than what he does during the regular season. I just checked on baseballarchive, and they show the stats you have. Don’t know why the other site was wrong. It’s true that his playoff stats are about the same as his regular season stats (4.46 to 4.30), but (of course) he’s pitched in far fewer innings. In 2000, he pitched pretty well in the playoffs (13.1 innings pitched, 5 earned runs allowed, for an ERA of 3.38). So it could happen again, as it was only two years ago he pitched well. Maybe the offense let him down that year? > [@](#): > > As I said, Stoneman’s a chump. > > (In case you haven’t noticed, I blame Stoneman for a lot of things that are wrong with the Angels. Which is unfair to a certain extent, but Anaheim definitely needs a competent GM to deal with player signings.) Yeah, I wouldn’t go too easy on him myself - they did sign Mo Vaughn, after all, and he did squat for them. Of course, it wasn’t easy to know that at the time… Anyway, if you’re an Angels fan, don’t worry! You’re 1 game out as of right now, and you have an inside track to the postseason. I’m not saying you’re a shoo-in for the World Series, but your chances look good for getting deep into the playoffs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-trade-rumors-anyone/120623.md?page=1)