# Baseball: What defines a checked swing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025 "2003-09-11T19:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/1 "2003-09-11T19:40:03Z")
I was a little embarrassed not to be able to explain to one of my kids what the standards are for an umpire’s judging if a batter’s swing has been checked or not. AFAIK there are no rules defining a swing, but it seems unlikely that there was never even an advisory from the Commissioner’s Office for their use. What criterion does an umpire use? The bat barrel crossing the plate, the wrists bending, control of the bat head? I’ve heard a number of announcers claim with some certainty in their voices that each of those is the standard, but I doubt it. Can such a critical area really be so subjective? ---
**Author:** ![randomlyblanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@randomlyblanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomlyblanks)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/2 "2003-09-11T19:55:22Z")
The rule is the barrel of the bat crossing the plate. This is not a vague area; the rules explicitely say that a swing is when the barrel of the bat crosses the plate ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/3 "2003-09-11T20:08:29Z")
Actually it is when the barrel of the bat crosses the front edge of the plate. This edge is where the strike zone is determined. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/4 "2003-09-11T20:13:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by poogas21 \* > \*\*The rule is the barrel of the bat crossing the plate. This is not a vague area; the rules explicitely say that a swing is when the barrel of the bat crosses the plate \*\* Cite, please? Where is this stated in the [official rules](http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp)? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/5 "2003-09-11T20:14:11Z")
If your rules explicitly define a swing, then you’re looking at a different book than I am. All the [Official Baseball Rules](http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp) say about it is that a “strike” is a pitch “struck at” by the batter, and missed. No definition of what constitutes “struck at”. But the guidelines I’ve been giving in my umpire training, as regards to ruling on a check swing from a position as a base umpire, is that if you saw the end of the bat from 1st base, it’s a strike. And deb2, the location of the strike zone is irrelevant in judging a swinging strike. ---
**Author:** ![randomlyblanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@randomlyblanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomlyblanks)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/6 "2003-09-11T20:14:47Z")
Yes, sorry I was unclear. By “crosses the plate” I should have said “FULLY crosses the plate, not just touches it.” Since this is hard for a homeplate ump to see often, you have the right to appeal to one of the base umpires (only if the pitch would be a ball if the batter did not swing). It’s usually better to appeal and make sure than try to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/7 "2003-09-11T20:20:29Z")
From [here](http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/rules/obr/library/rule.cfm/Check%20Swing/): > [@](#): > > CHECK SWING RULE > “He broke his wrists”, “The bat went past the front of the plate.” > Many people believe those two statements are written in the rules or are written as official interpretations of a strike. > > THEY ARE NOT. > > A strike by definition is “a pitch that is struck at by the batter and is missed.” It is purely a judgment made by the umpire as to whether the batter “struck at” the pitch. Breaking the wrists or the bat moving beyond the front of the plate or the batter’s body, are factors that the umpire may use to make the judgment. Factors is all they are; not definitions. > > It is not automatically a strike when a batter holds the bat over the plate preparing to bunt and does not pull it back when the pitch goes by. The same judgment applies. Did the batter “strike at” the pitch? > > It is not automatically a strike when a batter is ducking an inside pitch and he spins around and the bat crosses the plate. The umpire must judge if he was avoiding the pitch or striking at it. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/8 "2003-09-11T20:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsc1953 \* > And deb2, the location of the strike zone is irrelevant in judging a swinging strike. \*\* It is not strike zone, it is where the strike zone is determined as being judged. When the ball cross the front edge of the plate is where it should be determined if it is a strike or ball. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/9 "2003-09-11T21:48:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by deb2world \* > \*\*It is not strike zone, it is where the strike zone is determined as being judged. When the ball cross the front edge of the plate is where it should be determined if it is a strike or ball. \*\* The rules don’t actually say that. > [@](#): > > Official Rules: 2.00 Definition of Terms > > The STRIKE ZONEis that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hallow beneath the knee cap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball. All it says is “over home plate.” A curve ball could in theory pass over the back corner of the plate and still be called a strike. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/10 "2003-09-11T21:51:50Z")
Deb, you’re right; but you’re missing my point. The strike zone definition is used to define **called** strikes. It has nothing to do with **swinging** strikes. As Colibri’s site correctly points out, there is no definition of a swinging strike. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/11 "2003-09-11T21:58:38Z")
gentlemen (jsc1953 & Colibri) you are missing the point of the op. He wants to be able to sit at the ballgame and tell his kid how an umpire calls the play of when a player has successfully checked his swing or struck at the ball. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/12 "2003-09-11T22:04:21Z")
The OP wants to know what is the umpire’s criteria for determining whether or not the batter swung. The answer: his own best judgment. There’s nothing in the rulebook. “Can it really be that subjective?” Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/13 "2003-09-11T23:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by deb2world \* > \*\*gentlemen (jsc1953 & Colibri) you are missing the point of the op. He wants to be able to sit at the ballgame and tell his kid how an umpire calls the play of when a player has successfully checked his swing or struck at the ball. \*\* The OP said, “AFAIK there are no rules defining a swing.” The replies of both **poogas21** and you seemed to indicate that there were. **poogas21** said “The rule is . . .” implying that there was actually something in the baseball rules about it. Your own reply immediately after contradicted him, saying “Actually it [the rule, presumably] is . . .”, also implying there was a rule. This is incorrect, which is what I was responding to. You answers were also incorrect concerning the strike zone. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/14 "2003-09-12T00:03:19Z")
**Colibri** you must be really “fun” to go to a game with. I was trying to answer the question which was how to describe a swinging strike to a child. I apologize for misinterpreting the question that is obviously a baseball debate that has no answer. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/15 "2003-09-12T02:14:32Z")
As Potter Stewart might have said if he were a baseball umpire, “I can’t exactly define a check swing, but I know it when I see it.” It is one of baseball’s eternal mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/16 "2003-09-12T02:25:42Z")
Deb, if the rule leaves the determination completely up to the umpires judgement, then that’s what the kids need to know. Telling them it’s a broken wrist or breaking a particular plane only invites them to argue with the umpire, using a nonexistant rule as backup. Now… if anyone is an umpire, or has received umpire training, then we can better understand how umpires decide. jsc gave us an idea of what the base umpires are looking for, the end of the bat. We still don’t have data from a plate umpire on what criteria they use. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/17 "2003-09-12T02:27:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by deb2world \* > \*\ ***Colibri** you must be really “fun” to go to a game with. I was trying to answer the question which was how to describe a swinging strike to a child. I apologize for misinterpreting the question that is obviously a baseball debate that has no answer. My bad. \*\* Yes, but both of your answers were wrong. The front edge of the plate is NOT where the pitch is determined to be a ball or a strike, and there is no rule that says a swing is a swing if the barrel crosses the front of the plate. A perfect example of a swing that would not cross the front edge of the plate is an obviously attempted but missed bunt. The pitch is lower than you expect and you stab down and miss. That’s a strike, even if the barrel doesn’t cross the plane of the front of the plate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/18 "2003-09-12T15:05:53Z")
Thanks for your replies, everyone. The kid knows about the concept of “The rules are whatever I say they are”, though, so that’s the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/19 "2003-09-12T15:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by deb2world \* > \*\ ***Colibri** you must be really “fun” to go to a game with. I was trying to answer the question which was how to describe a swinging strike to a child. I apologize for misinterpreting the question that is obviously a baseball debate that has no answer. My bad. \*\* Um, **deb** , I hate to break this to you, but we’re not actually _at_ a baseball game, we’re in GQ at the Straight Dope. The object here is to answer the questions accurately, not respond off the top of your head and then pout when you’re corrected on it. In any case, although the OP mentioned trying to explain to one of his kids what the criteria for a swinging strike was, the actual questions he asked were: > [@](#): > > What criterion does an umpire use? The bat barrel crossing the plate, the wrists bending, control of the bat head? I’ve heard a number of announcers claim with some certainty in their voices that each of those is the standard, but I doubt it. Can such a critical area really be so subjective? This isn’t a “baseball debate that has no answer,” the answer is that the decision is subjective, and there are no official, written rules. PS. It’s not necessarily trivial to misinform a child of what the rules are, if they try to use that information when playing Little League or in high school. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseball-what-defines-a-checked-swing/201025/20 "2003-09-12T15:47:59Z")
A strike is, at rock bottom, what the umpire calls a strike; a ball, what he calls a ball. There are explicit definitions and guidelines to aid him in making such calls – but his decision (subject to appeal to another umpire who may have had a better perspective on the particular series of events) is final. Ergo, a called or swinging strike is one which the umpire calls that; a checked swing is what the umpire calls that – and the base umpire’s call as to whether the axis of the bat crosses the base line in question is one of the standard guidelines for him making that call when appealed to. An umpire is expected to exercise unbiased judgment in making such judgment calls, so that a checked swing by the visitors in the top of the third is called identically to a checked swing by the home team in the bottom of the fifth.