# Baseball's Permenantly Ineligible list **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 2, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970 "2001-07-02T15:28:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/1 "2001-07-02T15:28:53Z")
[sup] Two questions: [/sup] **One:** I couldn’t find an official list on the web anywhere. We all know about the eight “Black Sox” and Pete Rose. I also know about Phil Douglas and the four 1877 Louisville players. I’m also aware of Heinie Zimmerman and Hal Chase being “unofficially” declared _persona non-grata_\* about 1920. Is there anyone else I’m missing who is on baseball’s all-time bad list? **Two:** Baseball has rules that are not part of the official playing rules. These go under the title “Major League Rules.” The two most famous of these are Rule 5 (drafting of eligible players who are not on a team’s 40-man roster) and Rule 21 (the rule against gambling). Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the rest of these rules? All the searches I do for baseball rules turn up the official playing rules, not the rules I’m looking for. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/2 "2001-07-02T15:32:17Z")
Gotta remember: Preview, preview, preview… Zev ---
**Author:** ![jcgmoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@jcgmoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jcgmoi)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/3 "2001-07-02T18:20:38Z")
Bill James partially addresses this question in _The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract_ in his section on the 20’s. What follows is gleaned from those pages. In addition to the Black Sox eight, eleven active players were thrown out of the game, either banned outright, or black-listed: Paul Carter, Hal Chase, Phil Douglas, Jean Duboc, Joe Gedeon, Claude Hendrix, Benny Kauff, Lee Magee, Jimmy O’Connell, Gene Paulette, and Heinie Zimmerman. These former players were, according to James, “not invited to any oldtimers games”: Bill Burns, Cozy Dolan, Billy Maharg (possibly same player as Peaches Graham [James]), and Dutch Leonard. I also recall some bannings in the 40’s resulting from players jumping to the Mexican League. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/4 "2001-07-02T18:33:32Z")
Some of the players who signed with the Mexican League were banned for a number of years, but I believe they are not on the permanently ineligible list. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/5 "2001-07-02T18:33:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Paul Carter, Hal Chase, Phil Douglas, Jean Duboc, Joe Gedeon, Claude Hendrix, Benny Kauff, Lee Magee, Jimmy O’Connell, Gene Paulette, and Heinie Zimmerman. Chase, Douglas and Zimmerman, I knew about. I’ve heard of Kauff (famous hitter in the Federal League), O’Connell and Hendrix, but didn’t know that they had been banned. The others I don’t remember ever hearing about. [quote] \*\* These former players were, according to James, “not invited to any oldtimers games”: Bill Burns, Cozy Dolan, Billy Maharg (possibly same player as Peaches Graham [James]), and Dutch Leonard. \*\* Burns and Maharg worked as go-betweens between the gamblers and the Black Sox. Between them they had three games I think in the majors, so no great loss there. Dutch Leonard is a well-known name to baseball fans, but I don’t recall that he was banned. What was it for? Cozy Dolan I had heard about and forgotten. Thanks for the reminder. > [@](#): > > I also recall some bannings in the 40’s resulting from players jumping to the Mexican League. Those were five year suspensions that were handed out, not permenant bans. Sal Maglie was one of those suspended for five years. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/6 "2001-07-02T18:53:07Z")
Dutch Leonard accussed Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, and Joe Wood of conspiring to throw a game many years after the fact IIRC. I believe the game in question was around 1919 or 1920. Leonard wrote Landis in the winter of 1926 I believe detailing the scheme. Landis wanted more info from Leonard and asked him to come to Chicago to testify. However Leonard was retired and living on the West Coast and said he didn’t want to. Again, I don’t have all the facts in front of me, but I beleive that Landis decided to ban Leonard and Cobb, Speaker, and Wood were cleared, but Cobb and Speaker were released from their managerial contracts (Tigers and Indians) and both played out their careers in Philadelphia. The facts on this case have always been pretty hazy. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/7 "2001-07-02T18:58:12Z")
Thanks for the info on the banned players. Does anyone have any info on the second item I posted (Major League Rules)? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/8 "2001-07-03T01:28:41Z")
Bruce Bechtel, Rube Benton (later reinstated), Ray Fisher, Joe Gedeon, Hubert Leonard, Eugene Paulette, and Richard Higham (an umpire). Jean Dubuc was banned, but was allowed to return as a coach for Detroit in '31. The following are some players who were banned for nonsanctioned minor league play: Babe Borton, Gene Dale, Jess Levan, Harl Maggert, Tom Seaton and Joe Tipton. Cozy Dolan was indeed banned. If Dutch Leonard was also, it came very late in his career; he left baseball when he was about 44. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/9 "2001-07-03T01:35:58Z")
According to the Bill James book, Dutch Leonard wasn’t put on the ineligible list, but the was declared persona non grata. There were two Dutch Leonards. The last one pitched until 1953. Which team did Dutch Leonard I work for until 1944? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/10 "2001-07-03T01:37:59Z")
Bill James is incorrect as to the identity of Billy Maharg. William Joseph Maharg was 5’4", born 19 March 1881 in Philadelphia; George Frederick Graham was 5’9" and born on 23 March 1877 in Aledo, IL. Maharg died in '53 and Graham in '39. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/11 "2001-07-03T01:42:39Z")
Whoops, I forgot about the previous Dutch Leonard. I was referring to the one pitched in '53. The other is listed in Total Baseball’s list of banned players under his given name. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/12 "2001-07-03T02:20:23Z")
Dutch Leonard II was a knuckleball pitcher. Dutch Leonard I holds a single-season ERA record depending upon how many innings you want to use as a minimum. ---
**Author:** ![jcgmoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@jcgmoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jcgmoi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-permenantly-ineligible-list/70970/13 "2001-07-03T13:12:00Z")
**zev:** You’re looking for _The Official Professional Baseball Rules Book_ and clearly MLB does not want copies floating around. I did find this info: Here’s a [discussion](http://www.northshore.net/homepages/robbins/usml/primer.html) of some of the rules by Rob Neyer. Here’s a [interesting request](http://lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/LAWLIB/Jan01/0320.html) from a law librarian. I say ‘interesting’ because she says in 1999 she ‘facilitated’ the purchase of the rules from the commissioner’s office, but later says MLB denies the book exists. Lastly here’s [the librarian’s acknowledgement of responses](http://lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/LAWLIB/Jan01/0362.html) to her original post. Says she’s contacting the HOF for their help.