# Baseball's Rookie of the Year **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015 "2001-11-13T00:11:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/41 "2001-11-21T08:42:24Z")
Why didn’t John Rocker get any MVP votes? Most Virulent Punk, that is. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/42 "2001-11-21T15:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > **In terms of actually being a more valuable baseball player, I’d take Jason Giambi. And Alex Rodriguez. And in 2001, I’d take Roberto Alomar, too, over Ichiro.** Minty Green asked “Seriously, which guy do you want on your team?” I answered with my opinion, which ultimately is all that sports arguments are when you boil them down to their base components. There are many situations, and in my opinion, more situations where I would like to have a good, fast contact hitter on my team than a slugger. With the pitching of today, a mobile outfield is, again in my opinion, more important than a strong infield. > [@](#): > > \*\*He was a bad choice. He wasn’t the worst MVP ever, or even close to it, though; I can think of ten worse choices and not even have to look up a list. I’m looking at you, Andre Dawson. \*\* I’m not going to argue your opinion. I disagree, but you and M.G. are both entitled to them. My only point, earlier in the thread was judging MVP based on pure numerical statistics doesn’t give a clear picture of the players entire game. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/43 "2001-11-22T02:55:27Z")
I’m not trying to pick a fight here–especially since I’m about to leave town–but what that sounds like to me is that you can’t make a case for your favorite guy, so you’re going to dismiss the relevance of statistics and claim that intangibles make the difference. Sorry, but that’s just not an argument that carries any weight with me. Your list is a prime example of that, actually. Stolen bases and total hits are about the only offensive categories Ichiro lead the league in. But I can make a strong case that total bases are far more valuable than either category, since total bases takes into account both hits and SB, plus acknowledges the blindingly obvious fact that a double, triple, or homer is much more valuable than a single. I’d personally be surprised if Ichiro was any higher than about number 5 on that list (which isn’t available on [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com)), since he hits with very little power, and has shown no ability whatsoever to draw a walk (hence, the unimpressive OBP). And as for total runs, A-Rod had him beat, by six runs IIRC. And as for runs created, A-Rod thoroughly stomped Ichiro, beating him by a bit in runs scored and nearly doubling his RBIs. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/44 "2001-11-22T03:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > total bases takes into account both hits and SB Typo or mistake? > [@](#): > > plus acknowledges the blindingly obvious fact that a double, triple, or homer is much more valuable than a single. OTOH, two singles are worth more than one double etc. There is a diminishing returns issue with regards to total bases on a given hit. (In general I agree about Ichiro, as mentioned). [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/45 "2001-11-22T04:36:47Z")
No typo. Total bases, to my understanding, are just that. It includes singles, doubles, triples, homers, walks, balks, HBP, and stolen bases. Am I mistaken on this? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/46 "2001-11-22T05:52:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*No typo. Total bases, to my understanding, are just that. It includes singles, doubles, triples, homers, walks, balks, HBP, and stolen bases. Am I mistaken on this? \*\* Total bases, to my understanding, includes only bases obtained on hits; i.e. 1 for a single, 2 for a double, etc. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015/47 "2001-11-22T11:21:55Z")
Then from now on, I shall refer to it as “a good start on calculating total bases.” 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baseballs-rookie-of-the-year/93015.md?page=2)