# Based on this, I admit I really like Cuba. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 29, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673 "2006-06-29T20:42:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/21 "2006-06-30T02:46:46Z")
In any case, you are completely missing the point. Maybe you think the US has lousy heathcare, and maybe you think we should have some kind of universal health care system instead of the system we have now. But what else do people in Cuba have? Do you seriously think you would want to give up what we have in the US so you could get free checkups every year? Seriously? Do you really think giving up your civil rights would be worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/22 "2006-06-30T02:48:48Z")
I believe the point being made is that Cuba may have some qualities better than the U.S., not that Cuba is overall the “superior” country. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/23 "2006-06-30T02:50:49Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] There is plenty wrong with Cuba, why don’t you pick an area other than universal healthcare, even if it is below the standards of our insured citizens. This is an area Cuba has down well. [/QUOTE] What are you talking about? I didn’t bring up their healthcare system… **Seven** did, with this post: [QUOTE=Seven] They have national health care and lower infant death rates than the USA. The former U.S. Surgeon General seems to think Cuba has better preventitive health care than the USA. I also think this is what you mean when you talk about HIV “concentration camps”. At least they were doing something about AIDS when it broke instead of hoping it will kill all the gay people and then go away. That said, I don’t think Castro is the best guy in the world but I’d happen a guess if the USA sactions against Cuba were lifted they would excel past the USA on many points. For a poor country they are doing something right. [/QUOTE] My point was that universal healthcare is all well and good, but doing “something right” is pretty weak praise, when they are doing everything else wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/24 "2006-06-30T02:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] In any case, you are completely missing the point. Maybe you think the US has lousy heathcare, and maybe you think we should have some kind of universal health care system instead of the system we have now. But what else do people in Cuba have? Do you seriously think you would want to give up what we have in the US so you could get free checkups every year? Seriously? Do you really think giving up your civil rights would be worth it? [/QUOTE] Again. Their government is more representational than ours. They actually have turnover in their government and participation. 98 percent of incumbents win here. Not so there. 99.6% of their population votes. What percentage of our population votes? Cuba’s literacy rate hovers around the mid 90 percent. There’s another reason to be “jealous”. All things i’ve told you before and proven in previous threads. You don’t listen, care, or learn. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/25 "2006-06-30T02:58:41Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I believe the point being made is that Cuba may have some qualities better than the U.S., not that Cuba is overall the “superior” country. [/QUOTE] The OP seems to think that giving people the right to an abortion, a divorce, and sodomy are more important to humanity than basic freedom. I am trying to show why I believe that the Cuban government isn’t QUITE as “enlightened” as some may think. The fact that they shoot people who try to leave SHOULD be one indication, one would think. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/26 "2006-06-30T03:00:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] The OP seems to think that giving people the right to an abortion, a divorce, and sodomy are more important to humanity than basic freedom. I am trying to show why I believe that the Cuban government isn’t QUITE as “enlightened” as some may think. The fact that they shoot people who try to leave SHOULD be one indication, one would think. [/QUOTE] We’d like to shoot ones that WANT to join ours in the southwest. Well, we would if the rest of the neocons had their way. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/27 "2006-06-30T03:01:57Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Again. Their government is more representational than ours. They actually have turnover in their government and participation. 98 percent of incumbents win here. Not so there. 99.6% of their population votes. What percentage of our population votes? Cuba’s literacy rate hovers around the mid 90 percent. There’s another reason to be “jealous”. All things i’ve told you before and proven in previous threads. You don’t listen, care, or learn. [/QUOTE] I have not seen these threads, but anyone who believes that Cuba is not a dictatorship is delusional. And I care a great deal…I have family who lives there, so I have a suspicion that I care more than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/28 "2006-06-30T03:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I have not seen these threads, but anyone who believes that Cuba is not a dictatorship is delusional. And I care a great deal…I have family who lives there, so I have a suspicion that I care more than you do. [/QUOTE] Well, when you get done telling me how much I do or don’t care about any particular subject (at your choice, naturally) we can have a discussion, no? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/29 "2006-06-30T03:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] The OP seems to think that giving people the right to an abortion, a divorce, and sodomy are more important to humanity than basic freedom. [/QUOTE] Which freedom? Seeing as how those three are all freedoms themselves, you’ll have to be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/30 "2006-06-30T03:08:42Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Well, when you get done telling me how much I do or don’t care about any particular subject (at your choice, naturally) we can have a discussion, no? [/QUOTE] You said I don’t care, so I say you don’t care. Nyah nyah nyah. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/31 "2006-06-30T03:10:44Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Which freedom? Seeing as how those three are all freedoms themselves, you’ll have to be more specific. [/QUOTE] Sure, to quote my earlier post (with the relevant freedoms I mentioned bolded): > [@](#): > > Do you get that they are a prison island? That whether or not they are “doing something right” that it doesn’t matter because the people have no choice in their government and they can’t leave? No one has addressed the point that both Lemur and I have brought up… **NO freedom of speech. NO freedom of movement. NO freedom of assembly. NO freedom to petition the government for a redress of grievances.** Even if their healthcare system is decent, this is NO SUBSTITUTE for freedom. Even if it is slightly better than the US system (which is hard to believe), people in the US have good healthcare AND freedom. You can have both, and something tells me the folks in Cuba would love to have both. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/32 "2006-06-30T03:11:53Z")
Freedom to buy something exotic (like a kilo of soap) when you like. Freedom to own your own home. Freedom to criticize the government. Freedom to go on vacation overseas. Freedom from conscription. Freedom to start a little business Freedom to get rich. What the heck good are other freedoms if you are required to live your life in poverty? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/33 "2006-06-30T03:14:45Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] Maybe you’re being sarcastic, JohnT. But I see it as a legitimate question. Don’t most of the US concerns about abortion and homosexuality and divorce come from the Bible? And isn’t Cuba heavily Christian? So how come it’s OK for the public there and not here? Or are you saying the public really hates it and Castro just enforced his rule? [/QUOTE] I’m saying it’s easier to affect change when it’s merely one person deciding things. Complaining that a democracy can’t change it’s mind as fast as a dictatorship kind of misses the point of the whole “freedom” and “voting” thing, dontcha think? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/34 "2006-06-30T03:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Again. Their government is more representational than ours. They actually have turnover in their government and participation. 98 percent of incumbents win here. Not so there. 99.6% of their population votes. [/QUOTE] Many dictatorships hold “elections.” I mean, you’re taking reality denial to remarkable heights of stupidity here. **Fidel Castro is an absolute dictator.** He isn’t subject to the will of the people, and if you oppose him even a little too vocally, they send you to prison or shoot you. It is not a free country or a democracy by any reasonable definition thereof. You’re allowing the controversy over the USA’s admittedly silly attitude towards Cuba to blind you to one inescapable fact: It’s a prison. Most prisons have good food and handy health care and a nice prison library. It still sucks to live in them and they won’t let you leave. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/35 "2006-06-30T03:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Sure, to quote my earlier post (with the relevant freedoms I mentioned bolded): [/QUOTE] Ok. Those are examples in which the U.S. is superior to Cuba. It goes both ways. Surely if you can recognise the points on which the U.S. is better, you can recognise the points on which Cuba is better? ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/36 "2006-06-30T03:27:48Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Again. Their government is more representational than ours. They actually have turnover in their government and participation. 98 percent of incumbents win here. Not so there. 99.6% of their population votes. What percentage of our population votes? Cuba’s literacy rate hovers around the mid 90 percent. There’s another reason to be “jealous”. All things i’ve told you before and proven in previous threads. You don’t listen, care, or learn. [/QUOTE] According to the CIA factbook, the US literacy rate is 99%. Why would we be jealous of Cuba? Cuba’s preventative care is laudable, but it should be noted that good preventative care is essentially the extent of what they can offer everybody.. the resources for more simply do not exist. There are no doctor shortages because of free university education and the quite simple fact that the doctors produced there are not allowed to leave to find more lucrative work overseas. A prison with a good staff of GPs and a liberal education policy doesn’t for one moment obscure the fact that it’s still a prison. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/37 "2006-06-30T03:28:20Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Many dictatorships hold “elections.” I mean, you’re taking reality denial to remarkable heights of stupidity here. **Fidel Castro is an absolute dictator.** He isn’t subject to the will of the people, and if you oppose him even a little too vocally, they send you to prison or shoot you. It is not a free country or a democracy by any reasonable definition thereof. You’re allowing the controversy over the USA’s admittedly silly attitude towards Cuba to blind you to one inescapable fact: It’s a prison. Most prisons have good food and handy health care and a nice prison library. It still sucks to live in them and they won’t let you leave. [/QUOTE] Well, let’s not mince words. I wouldn’t want to live in Cuba. I’m sure life there is very different from what we have here in America, and in most other countries as well. My point about Cuba isn’t that it’s some island paradise. My point has always been that it’s not as bad as the constant propaganda and bad stories would lead you to believe. They are doing some positive things right. They are doing some things wrong. They’re not a complete brutal place. They’re not comfortable by any means as well. They have different values, desires, hopes and dreams. No need to hate anyone because of the location of their accidental birth. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/38 "2006-06-30T03:35:32Z")
[QUOTE=lokij] According to the CIA factbook, the US literacy rate is 99%. Why would we be jealous of Cuba? Cuba’s preventative care is laudable, but it should be noted that good preventative care is essentially the extent of what they can offer everybody.. the resources for more simply do not exist. There are no doctor shortages because of free university education and the quite simple fact that the doctors produced there are not allowed to leave to find more lucrative work overseas. A prison with a good staff of GPs and a liberal education policy doesn’t for one moment obscure the fact that it’s still a prison. [/QUOTE] Right. If the literacy rate is 99 percent, then there are virtually no illiterate people. Let’s Ask the CIA about literacy like we’d ask the Library of Congress about infectious diseases. I’d rather ask the [Department](http://www.ed.gov/searchResults.jhtml?oq=literacy&odq=literacy&qt=Adult+Literacy&rq=0&st=0&) of Education, if you don’t mind. I’ve seen rates ranging from 5 percent to 22 percent. Either way, best or worst case scenario, 99 percent is amazingly inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/39 "2006-06-30T03:40:38Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Right. If the literacy rate is 99 percent, then there are virtually no illiterate people. Let’s Ask the CIA about literacy like we’d ask the Library of Congress about infectious diseases. I’d rather ask the [Department](http://www.ed.gov/searchResults.jhtml?oq=literacy&odq=literacy&qt=Adult+Literacy&rq=0&st=0&) of Education, if you don’t mind. I’ve seen rates ranging from 5 percent to 22 percent. Either way, best or worst case scenario, 99 percent is amazingly inaccurate. [/QUOTE] And where, pray tell, did you get your figure for Cuba’s very impressive 90%? :\> ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673/40 "2006-06-30T03:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Many dictatorships hold “elections.” I mean, you’re taking reality denial to remarkable heights of stupidity here. **Fidel Castro is an absolute dictator.** He isn’t subject to the will of the people, and if you oppose him even a little too vocally, they send you to prison or shoot you. It is not a free country or a democracy by any reasonable definition thereof. You’re allowing the controversy over the USA’s admittedly silly attitude towards Cuba to blind you to one inescapable fact: It’s a prison. Most prisons have good food and handy health care and a nice prison library. It still sucks to live in them and they won’t let you leave. [/QUOTE] That’s exactly right. Dictatorships ALWAYS have an extraordinarily high % of people voting…don’t people wonder how they manage that? How could any free country EVER get 99.6% of the population to do ANYTHING? It’s absurd. And yes, it is a prison. If you try to leave, they shoot you. And somehow universal health care is supposed to make up for all of this? Please. Don’t make me laugh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/based-on-this-i-admit-i-really-like-cuba/362673.md?page=3)