# basement remodel w/o a permit **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489 "2007-12-01T23:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![justafakeforsd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@justafakeforsd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justafakeforsd)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/1 "2007-12-01T23:04:29Z")
what would be the ramifications of finishing a basement w/o getting a permit/inspection? would i be screwed when the time comes to sell my house, or could i just not declare the space as “livable”? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/2 "2007-12-02T00:15:10Z")
The possible problems are many. You could be fined, assessed for back taxes, be ordered to tear out the non-permitted work, or a combination of the above. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/3 "2007-12-02T00:24:27Z")
It all depends on your local zoning laws. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/4 "2007-12-02T00:44:35Z")
Here we are allowed a dollar limit, I think it’s around $1000 to $1500. You can make improvements up to that limit as long as it doesn’t involve new electrical or plumbing. Check w/ your local zoning dept., they may have the requirements on their web site. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/5 "2007-12-02T01:14:02Z")
I think that to be “livable space,” it needs an emergency exit. My house has a full, finished basement put in by the original, previous owner. Bathroom with shower, bedroom, wet bar, huge area, and despite all that, the house was sold to me on the basis of only the main floor footage, the main floor baths, and the main floor bedrooms. Now my question, not worthy of a new thread, but inspired by **A.R. Cane**. I want to add on to my deck. Maybe replace it altogether. I don’t need a permit for construction of a deck up to 120 ft². The existing (original) deck is larger, so does that mean I can add on as long as the new deck isn’t larger? Can I remove the entire deck, and build a “new deck” within the limits, and then a month later, add on a new deck within the limits, until finally I have a huge deck? For certain things a permit is reasonable, but the way the rules are written, I need a permit to replace a light switch or electric outlet! Dang, going to get lots of answers for this, too: how about water heaters? What’s the definition of “install”? I want to “install” one as a surge tank – no energy connections. Believe it or not, a hot water heater is significantly cheaper than just a water storage tank of the same size. Is it only a water heater if used to heat water? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/6 "2007-12-02T13:34:11Z")
Get a lawyer–it may be possible to apologize to the local government, in writing, & they’ll just blow off the fines as not worth the trouble. But fix the problem your “fixing” has caused–ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/7 "2007-12-02T14:14:30Z")
Everything is based on your local ordinances. A big reason people pay money for experts to do it is that the experts are (in theory) familiar with your local ordinances and know how to go through the local channels. There’s no reason at all that you couldn’t find your local building inspector’s office, walk in during business hours and start asking questions, though. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/8 "2007-12-02T15:15:28Z")
Just call your local inspectors office. If you are finishing the basement, typically you need to get the electrical and plumbing permits, because they are state inspections. Sometimes there is the loophole that if the homeowner is doing the work, they don’t need the permits, up to a certain level. **Danceswithcats** is right though. Depending on your jurisdiction, you could be setting yourself up for some major problems, or there may be no negative impact at all. Call first. Typically the permit fee is negligible compared to the cost of construction. Not sure why you’d avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Shecky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Shecky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shecky)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/9 "2007-12-02T15:19:01Z")
It’s on the local ordinances, and your town clerk should be able to point you in the right direction. Around here, as long as the sheetrock doesn’t touch the floor by an inch or so and the ceiling is not nailed into the rafters, it’s not considered a finished basement. One house had everything done, including carpets, and was still not considered a finished basement for tax purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/10 "2007-12-02T16:55:20Z")
They can be that strict? Uh oh! I put in a garbage disposal in my sink. To make it run, I added a circuit to the sub-panel, ran wire under the sink, and installed a GFI outlet. First, how the heck would “they” know? When we bought our house, it was up to _our_ inspector to have a look around. He didn’t have the original house plans (or should he have?). Do housing inspectors occasionally raid places? Do things like this come to light after an accident (i.e., the fire inspector says it came from faulty wiring, which is checked against the original house plans)? Aside from fines, is this something that would typically nullify an insurance policy? Lastly, what kind of search terms would one enter into an online municipal code to find out if an inspection/permit is required? ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/11 "2007-12-02T16:59:29Z")
So does anyone know the answer to the original question? It wasn’t really about “what would be the fines if the buliding inspector found out you didn’t get permits.” More like “Would this come up when you tried to sell a house?” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/12 "2007-12-02T17:16:46Z")
Where I live, the local building inspector doesn’t do anything-they routinely approve large developer’s plans, and ignore the local homeowner. I’d say at least half the construction here in un-permitted, and its up to the homeowner to inform the city. All of which boils down to: don’t get caught. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/13 "2007-12-02T17:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=fisha] Call first. Typically the permit fee is negligible compared to the cost of construction. Not sure why you’d avoid it. [/QUOTE] You want to avoid it because getting a permit cost time and money. Typically plans must be submitted and approved then inspections must be scheduled. This will increase the length of time the project takes. The builders need to be there during the inspection so you end up paying for them to be there. The $50 for the permit is only a small portion of the cost of getting a permit. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/14 "2007-12-02T17:27:38Z")
[QUOTE=gazpacho] The builders need to be there during the inspection so you end up paying for them to be there. The $50 for the permit is only a small portion of the cost of getting a permit. [/QUOTE] For all the work (not “construction” per se) I’ve need to pull permits for, the inspector didn’t require anyone to be there. He wrote up a ticket with the deficiencies, and went on his way. Of course if the contractor pulls the permit, it’s the contractor’s responsibility to rectify. If you pulled the permit, hopefully your contractor comes back! ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basement-remodel-w-o-a-permit/428489/15 "2007-12-02T17:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=gazpacho] You want to avoid it because getting a permit cost time and money. Typically plans must be submitted and approved then inspections must be scheduled. This will increase the length of time the project takes. The builders need to be there during the inspection so you end up paying for them to be there. The $50 for the permit is only a small portion of the cost of getting a permit. [/QUOTE] Ok, I was taking the official line, and answering as a contractor, not a homeowner. As a contractor, I ALWAYS pull a permit, for pretty much everything, it’s not a big deal, nor a big part of the cost. In addition, it guarantees a minimum standard (in theory.) I would never hire a contractor that wanted you, the home owner, to either pull the permit yourself, or not pull a permit at all. \*This is not a good sign. \* As a homeowner, I live in a rural area, and we are township. When we built the house, we pulled a permit. Since then, we have never pulled a permit on any additional work we have done, but it’s all been cosmetic, not structural. Some areas are very, very punitive when it comes to following their building guidelines. They WILL make you remove everything you’ve constructed, or tear it apart, and fine you, and make you pay back taxes. They can make your life a living hell. Some areas don’t care, or don’t notice. As to the issue of selling your house, some prospective buyers would look unfavorably upon the fact that there is no record for any work being done, and no recourse for them if something goes wrong. Some may not even think to look. Just depends where you live. Call the local inspector’s office and see.