# Basic electronics question. Reeeeally basic. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553 "2005-03-08T18:00:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/1 "2005-03-08T18:00:01Z")
Soooooooo basic. Not even electronics, but basic wiring. What is the best way to attach 2 wires together, assuming I don’t own a soldering iron? My whole life I’ve tried twisting them together, making little hooks out of them, and every other way I can think of. Electrical tape seems to help a little, but only a little. No matter what I do, they keep coming apart if I so much as look at them funny. Added to this difficulty is the fact that the wires currently in question are very tiny. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/2 "2005-03-08T18:10:53Z")
You’ve answered yourself… Specially for thin wires, buy a soldiering iron. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/3 "2005-03-08T18:10:56Z")
I’d go with a crimp on connector, like these from [radio shack](http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=64-3073). That model is for telephone wires, which are pretty small. [Shrink tubing](http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=278-1610) is also good to protect the connection, easier than tape to use. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/4 "2005-03-08T18:12:44Z")
[Here is a picture of a Western Union Splice](http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14176/css/14176_46.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/5 "2005-03-08T18:14:21Z")
I have always just bound them **real** tight with electric tape. It works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/6 "2005-03-08T18:19:03Z")
Crimp, solder, or use twist connectors, depending on your application. I’m assuming that if the wires are tiny, you’re not talking house current. If you’re talking house current (or any high voltage application), then you have safety issues that we haven’t addressed here. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/7 "2005-03-08T18:19:38Z")
I have to agree with the “buy a soldering iron” option. They are cheap and pretty easy to use for this application. I would twist the wires together, touch the twisted part with the tip of the soldering iron, and apply the solder to the touching point. Upon preview I see other suggestions, but IMHO a crimping tool isn’t much easier to use than a soldering iron, and bad connections are less obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/8 "2005-03-08T18:22:16Z")
Depending on the guage your best bet is probably a crimp on connector, you can get then at most auto supply places or Radio Shack. You can get straight splices or plug and socket connectors I find handy for things like the ground wire in a car stereo that might have to be disconnected. For things like 120VAC wiring a wire nut is probably the best way to go. In my experience just twist connecting small gauge stranded wire with a Western Union splice is often less than reliable. Soldering can be good **if** you do it correctly as a cold solder joint can be unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/9 "2005-03-08T18:36:22Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Crimp, solder, or use twist connectors, depending on your application. > > I’m assuming that if the wires are tiny, you’re not talking house current. > If you’re talking house current (or any high voltage application), then you have safety issues that we haven’t addressed here. We’re talking about house current, but as run through a transformer. Seriously, you could touch the wires to my nipples and I still wouldn’t tell Jack where the universal remote was. 🙂 The wires are for a Z-scale train set. The reason I dislike soldering for this is that it tends to use up wire quickly, and I need some good amount of flexibility in my setup. In other words, no permanent connections. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/10 "2005-03-08T18:41:20Z")
Z or G, soldering is the best way to go, with crimping second. Are the rail joiners with the attached feeders available for Z scale? They work pretty well for HO… ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/11 "2005-03-08T19:07:25Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > Are the rail joiners with the attached feeders available for Z scale? They work pretty well for HO… No, you need special feeder track. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/12 "2005-03-08T23:35:05Z")
My favourite crimp connectors are “b” connectors, as seen [here](http://www.basshome.com/product_12583_detailed.htm). (First hit I found, no clue about that retailer. We get them from the local industrial electronics shop.) They’re easy, reliable, and you can open them without cutting the wires. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/13 "2005-03-09T00:50:36Z")
What’s wrong with wire nuts? ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/14 "2005-03-09T00:52:54Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > What’s wrong with wire nuts? I presume he’s working with 20 or 22 ga. wire. Ain’t a wire nut made for wire that small. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/15 "2005-03-09T00:57:52Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > What’s wrong with wire nuts? Well, I’m guessing it won’t have any more effect than the already-mentioned nipple procedure. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/16 "2005-03-09T01:05:07Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > I presume he’s working with 20 or 22 ga. wire. Ain’t a wire nut made for wire that small. Sorry, the UL disagrees. Please [refer to this chart](http://www.idealindustries.com/pdf/UL%20Listed%20Wire%20Combinations.pdf) for listed combinations of #22 and #20 wire with various Ideal wire nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/17 "2005-03-09T02:50:46Z")
I’ve been an electronics hobbyist since I was seven years old. I’m now a 37 year old electrical engineer. Crimps suck. Let me repeat: _crimps suck_. If I had a nickel for every time I _personally_ witnessed a wire pulled out of a crimp I’d be able to buy a new FAL rifle. Did I mention that crimps suck? There are only two electrical connections that are any good. One of them is a good compression joint. Like a copper wire under lots of compressive force. The other is solder. A properly soldered electrical connection is a Good Thing[sup]TM[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/18 "2005-03-09T03:08:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Crimps suck. Let me repeat: _crimps suck_. If I had a nickel for every time I _personally_ witnessed a wire pulled out of a crimp I’d be able to buy a new FAL rifle. 😕 Where the heck are you using crimp connections where there’s any way for the wires to be pulled? Without proper strain relief, yeah, they can pull apart, as can most anything else short of solder. But with proper strain relief, there’s nothing pulling, and hence no way for wires to pull out of a crimp connector, in which case they’re perfectly reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/19 "2005-03-09T03:20:06Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > 😕 Where the heck are you using crimp connections where there’s any way for the wires to be pulled? Without proper strain relief, yeah, they can pull apart, as can most anything else short of solder. But with proper strain relief, there’s nothing pulling, and hence no way for wires to pull out of a crimp connector, in which case they’re perfectly reliable. I’m telling ya, crimps _suck_. Every time I work on an industrial wiring project there are two or three wires that pull out of crimps. _Every time_. And these were “properly” crimped connections using proper dies and proper hydraulic crimping tools. I’m telling ya, crimps _suck_. When a technician does an industrial wiring job for me, I explicitly tell them to solder every crimp joint. Other engineers are like you… “Crimps are great!” Um, nope. I don’t care what you _think_ you know, or what others have told you. After crimping you should _solder_ the joint. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553/20 "2005-03-09T03:34:28Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Every time I work on an industrial wiring project there are two or three wires that pull out of crimps. _Every time_. So I’ll ask again. What sort of strain relief were you using? How are these joints going to be pulled apart if there’s no way to pull on the joint itself? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-electronics-question-reeeeally-basic/293553.md?page=2)