# Basic Financial Literacy - why is it SO uncommon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 29, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841 "2023-03-29T15:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/361 "2023-05-12T17:27:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > “Do you value a guaranteed income?” > “Do you value enjoying your retirement more than nerve-wracking investment decisions?” > “Do you value being protected from market downturns?” > “Do you value your spouse not having to worry about income if you die?” > > This is timeshare-level bullshit. Every question he asked was worded in a way to make you say yes. I always like to answer those sorts of questions, “No.” They don’t know where to go from there. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/362 "2023-05-12T17:33:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I always like to answer those sorts of questions, “No.” > > They don’t know where to go from there. That’s a good one. What I actually said to him was, “Tell me how much they cost, and I’ll tell you whether I value them at that price. Otherwise the questions are meaningless.” Flummoxed him, it did. He responded that their returns were ‘net fees’ which was a non-sequitur (and the actual returns he showed me later were NOT ‘net fees’). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/363 "2023-05-12T17:42:17Z")
I really worry sometimes about how I’ll do after my husband dies. I’m fine with managing the basics but the finer points of investing are lost on me. We do all those things you said to do, though. I manage household finances and he manages investments. Every so often he’ll sit me down, give me a list of three investment options and ask me which one I want to do. Or he’ll do some research and summarize the research and we decide together. So I don’t have zero input but he’s doing the vast majority of the work. Fair play - I plan, execute and monitor our budget and savings on a daily basis. Yes daily, I’m a bit obsessed. But I find it fun. And I love when he’s looking for money for something and it’s already there. But without him I’m worried I’ll be vulnerable to the more scammy stuff. I’ve been scammed before. I’m not stupid but I lack what many call common sense. This coupled with my need to appear agreeable and make everyone happy (including salesmen) could get me into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/364 "2023-05-12T17:42:51Z")
Here’s another issue for people trying to make investment decisions. I just searched Google for ‘segregated funds pros and cons’. _Every single hit_ on the first page of Google was either an insurance company or an ‘investment’ site like “[SafeInvestingForCanadians.com](http://SafeInvestingForCanadians.com)” (not a real site - but hey, the domain name is available) or whatever - which are also fronts for insurance companies. The “People also ask:” section in Google was full of answers about segregated funds - and every single one was from an insurance company masquerading as ‘investment advice’. Google is actively helping people make bad investment choices by allowing scammers to SEO or pay their way into the Google front page. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/365 "2023-05-12T17:49:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > But without him I’m worried I’ll be vulnerable to the more scammy stuff. I’ve been scammed before. I’m not stupid but I lack what many call common sense. This coupled with my need to appear agreeable and make everyone happy (including salesmen) could get me into trouble. This is really common. My wife thought I was ‘too harsh’ with the guy for pushing back on his claims. These guys are trained to be polite and friendly and agreeable, so it always looks like you are the bad guy if you make them justify their bullshit. Look at it this way: if you get an unsolicited call from an ‘investment advisor’, you have let a predator into your home - someone looking for a way to extract as much money from you as possible, whether you need their help or not, and likely willing to lie to you to do it. That might help you not be quite so agreeable. I don’t know how much you have invested, or how complex your investments are. But if your husband dies you should be able to set up your investment finances quite simply, and there are investment advisors out there you can talk to. Just make sure they aren’t affiliated with garbage products like insurance schemes. Your bank would probably be the first people to talk to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/366 "2023-05-12T18:04:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s another issue for people trying to make investment decisions. I just searched Google for ‘segregated funds pros and cons’. _Every single hit_ on the first page of Google was either an insurance company or an ‘investment’ site like “[SafeInvestingForCanadians.com](http://SafeInvestingForCanadians.com)” (not a real site - but hey, the domain name is available) or whatever - which are also fronts for insurance companies. At the bottom of the page when I search under “Related Searches” one of them is “Why segregated funds are bad.” I had only ever barely heard the term before (It seems to be a Canadian centric thing), but now I know why I will never invest in them. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Look at it this way: if you get an unsolicited call from an ‘investment advisor’, you have let a predator into your home - someone looking for a way to extract as much money from you as possible, whether you need their help or not, and likely willing to lie to you to do it. That might help you not be quite so agreeable. Just never buy anything from anyone that calls you has been my rule. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/367 "2023-05-12T18:13:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just never buy anything from anyone that calls you has been my rule. Also a very good rule. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/368 "2023-05-12T18:18:13Z")
You should let your old service provider call you with winback promos though. That’s a great way to get a really good deal. I’m still pining for Netflix to win me back after cancelling over the shared password thing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/369 "2023-05-12T18:24:22Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > You should let your old service provider call you with winback promos though. That’s a great way to get a really good deal. I do that sometimes, but I also like to make them sweat. If this is the 5th time they’ve called, they will give me a bigger discount. But, honestly, it’s usually not worth the hassle. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/370 "2023-05-12T18:54:52Z")
As to “nice” salesmen who force you to be mean to them I always say: > The stranger who pushes you to the ground to keep you from stepping in front of a bus is your friend. The used car (or fund) salesman who brought you a nice cup of coffee is not. > > What matters is the motive, not the action. The stranger is helping you; the salesman is softening you up for a mugging. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/371 "2023-05-12T19:56:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just never buy anything from anyone that calls you has been my rule. And another rule I have is never buy something from someone who comes to your door, having just been in the neighborhood doing work for a neighbor. Unless it’s a Girl Scout selling cookies. Sam’s list of questions sounds like the questions you get from a political “poll” that comes attached to a request for money. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/372 "2023-05-12T20:24:22Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I really worry sometimes about how I’ll do after my husband dies. I’m fine with managing the basics but the finer points of investing are lost on me. Have you talked with him about this? When my wife and I had our wills done, I made a document that explained what accounts I had, why I had them and what they were for, any tax implications, etc. in the event I wasn’t around. Also some of the relevant information about pension survivor benefits, health insurance, and other boring stuff she has no interest in right now. This document is in the envelope with the wills. Now that I have retired, I think I need to revisit that document and make some updates. As far as the fear of being scammed, ask him what you should do to protect yourself. The best answer might be “Keep everything where it is at”, but also make sure ownership of the account is in both your names, or you are listed as a beneficiary. Also have a plan on what to do with IRAs, though the most likely thing will be to roll his IRA into yours if you have one. Whatever the two of you decide to do, if it’s thought out beforehand there is less opportunity for the scammer to step in. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/373 "2023-05-12T22:29:57Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > When my wife and I had our wills done, I made a document that explained what accounts I had, why I had them and what they were for, any tax implications, etc. in the event I wasn’t around. Yes, we are way behind in that kind of planning. We still have to draft a will. He keeps putting it off. I will lean harder on him and I will include this on the agenda. Thanks everyone for the tips. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/374 "2023-05-13T03:21:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And another rule I have is never buy something from someone who comes to your door, having just been in the neighborhood doing work for a neighbor. After a hailstorm, a bunch of “inspectors” show up like ants on a neglected cookie at a picnic to take a look at your roof and try and sell you a new one. My usual approach is to let them go up, and use their inspection as a sort of pass/fail as to whether I need to actually call someone reputable to climb up there and do the real thing. I figure that those vulture inspectors are primed to find anything that’s wrong, and if they don’t find anything, then I’m probably in great shape. If they do, I thank them and call some other roofing guys I know to come take a look. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/375 "2023-05-13T05:14:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > After a hailstorm, a bunch of “inspectors” show up like ants on a neglected cookie at a picnic to take a look at your roof and try and sell you a new one. We don’t get those, we get the people who are selling solar energy. My roof is a long lasting one but delicate, so I tell them we’d love to do it, but not until we have to get a new roof. And I’d never let one of those nitwits anywhere near my roof, they’d probably break something. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/376 "2023-05-13T15:50:51Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > A lot of society has gotten used to interest rates being close to zero, and we aren’t going back to that for the foreseeable future, and that kind of thinking will have a serious cost. It’s interesting to see this play out as mortgage rates rise. In fact, right now, mortgage rates aren’t HIGH, by historical standards. They have been way, way higher, to be sure. But they’re hitting some people hard because there came a time when it sort of became the assumption that if you bought a house, you should spend as much on your mortgage payment as you possibly could. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/377 "2023-05-13T17:24:01Z")
One of the comments I make about housing and mortgages is that people buy a monthly payment, but they sell a price. Which means that in periods of low interest rates, lots more people can afford larger payments, and the price of houses is bid upwards. And given the narrowing pyramid as you go farther up the SES food chain, in low interest rate eras a _lot_ more people can afford a particular size / price house than in higher rate periods. The consequence as rates start going up is that somebody who bought a (all made-up numbers), $200K house with a $1,000 payment will discover at selling time that _far_ fewer people are able to swing the $3,000 payment it takes to buy the same $200K house. But the seller still needs to get $200K out of it to pay off his mortgage. Said another way, the tide going out strands a lot of boats. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/378 "2023-05-13T17:31:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Only buy insurance to cover things you absolutely can’t live without and can’t afford to replace. Most people over-insure, and it costs them a lot. I agree with most of your points. In the US, however, most people don’t buy _enough_ auto insurance, especially UIM. I know things are different in Canada. Also, I’ve see some home owners come up short after a total loss. That said, now that my kids are grown and mostly self sufficient, and my mortgage is paid off, I’ve cancelled my disability policies and most of my life insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/379 "2023-05-13T17:36:55Z")
People over-insure in a lot of ways. Extended warranties, travel insurance they already might have through work or credit cards, loss of income insurance on large purchases when they already have death coverage and unemployment insurance, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841/380 "2023-05-13T17:43:40Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > One of the comments I make about housing and mortgages is that people buy a monthly payment, but they sell a price. Sales people kmow this, so they will always try to negotiate on payments rather than price. “We can get you into this car for $99/month!” What they don’t tell you is to hit that price it will be a 96 month term at 7% interest. When I shop for a car, I will not tell them if I am trading in a used car, or if I am financing or paying cash on the spot, because I don’t want to give them the degrees of freedom to yank me around. If they find out you are financing through them, they might offer a better deal on price but recoup the money innthe financing terms. If they kmow you are trading in, they’ll offer you a higher price on the trade in to make you feel good, but roll the cost of that into something else. Negotiate the price for the vehicle you are happy with, then negotiate the trade-in, then negotiate financing if needed. Do NOT let them roll it all into ‘a monthly price you’ll find surprisingly affordable’. You’ll pay through the nose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basic-financial-literacy-why-is-it-so-uncommon/981841.md?page=20)