# Basketball stat question: blocks and steals **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886 "2003-03-28T21:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/1 "2003-03-28T21:01:17Z")
In the NBA, does it count as a steal AND a block if a player were to grab the ball in the air as it is leaving the opponent’s hands for a shot? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/2 "2003-03-28T21:20:43Z")
Having a hard time finding a link for this. I have scored basketball games in the past for local youth basketball leagues, and I’d score that as simply a blocked shot. I’m 99% sure that it would also be scored that way in both the NCAA and NBA. ---
**Author:** ![JaxBeachBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@JaxBeachBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaxBeachBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/3 "2003-03-28T22:00:32Z")
no, but I believe there is a rebound stat given…it is not a steal, as it is counted as a shot attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/4 "2003-03-29T00:17:20Z")
It is either one or the other–either a steal or a blocked shot plus a rebound. From the NCAA statistics guide: > [@](#): > > A blcoked shot should be credited only when the shot clearly is in flight or the player is in the obvious act of shooting. In cases where the ball is knocked loose before the player is in the act of shooting, the statistic in question should be a steal. I’m fairly sure that the NBA rule is similar. ---
**Author:** ![quasar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@quasar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quasar)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/5 "2003-03-29T02:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jklann \* > \*\*It is either one or the other–either a steal or a blocked shot plus a rebound. \*\* Why would it count as a rebound? Wouldn’t it have to bounce off the rim or backboard to be scored as such? ---
**Author:** ![JaxBeachBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@JaxBeachBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaxBeachBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/6 "2003-03-29T03:27:42Z")
no, there must be a rebound for every shot attempt. it would go 1)shot\>\>miss\>\>rebound or 2)shot\>\>block\>\>rebound this is why you have a “team rebounds” statistic as well…balls that go out of bounds are counted as a team rebound. every official shot attempt must be made, or have a rebound ---
**Author:** ![quasar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@quasar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quasar)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/7 "2003-03-29T04:50:44Z")
Crystal clear. Following your explanation, whoever recovers an air ball would be credited with a rebound, right? In the case when a player goes up for a rebound, realizes in midair that he will not be able to grab the ball, and decides to tip it to a teammate, who would get credited with the board, the one who tips it or the one that receives the tipped ball? Is there room for subjective reasoning on the part of the ruler, that is, can he decide to credit the rebound to the tipper if an actual intent to tip the ball is perceived or, if no such intent is interpreted, does he award the rebound to the teammate receiving the tip? ---
**Author:** ![tsm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@tsm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/8 "2003-03-29T06:07:30Z")
Longtime lurker here, but I keep stats for an NBA team, so I felt I could add to/confirm what has been said. It is indeed true that you need a rebound for every missed shot, including a missed “first” free throw when two free throw attempts are given (it counts as a team rebound for the shooting team in the NBA and as a deadball rebound in college basketball). **quasar** , to answer your question, yes, a player that recovers an airball does get a rebound. As far as a player tipping out a rebound, it is somewhat open to interpretation. If the player who tips out the rebound clearly controls the tip and tips it to a teammate, then he can be credited with the rebound. If the ball just gets knocked around by several players before it finally pops out and is recovered by a player, then the player that actually comes up with the ball would get the rebound. As **JaxBeachBoy** said, if a ball goes out of bounds, it is usually a team rebound credited to the team that will be bringing the ball back inbounds. ---
**Author:** ![JaxBeachBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@JaxBeachBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaxBeachBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/9 "2003-03-29T06:29:02Z")
and for the most part, offensive tip ins are 1)a rebound, and 2)another shot attempt. Wasn’t Moses Malone famous for getting 4-5 rebounds/possession by repeatedly tipping his own misses? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/10 "2003-03-29T07:35:33Z")
Dennis Rodman was known for picking up rebounds in that way also. He also would rarely venture out on fast breaks so he could stay back and get rebounds. But he was good at getting them. There are even rebounds given out when somebody misses the first of two free throws. ---
**Author:** ![tsm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@tsm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/11 "2003-03-29T07:47:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*There are even rebounds given out when somebody misses the first of two free throws. \*\* Right. These are credited as team or “deadball” (in college) rebounds and are not given to an individual player. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/12 "2003-03-29T16:26:02Z")
And the deadball rebounds don’t count toward the total rebounds gained by a team. They’re just there to make the math work out. ---
**Author:** ![quasar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@quasar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quasar)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/13 "2003-03-29T20:32:20Z")
Thanks for your expert clarifications, **tsm**. Two more questions: When a player attempts a desperation last-second shot before the buzzer goes off and he misses the shot, how would it be scored? It should count as a shot attempt since the ball was shot in regulation, but the ball is recovered by neither team since when it bounces off the backboard time has expired and the play is dead. What is the criterion for scoring the play? When a clever player intentionally gets a ball inbounds by bouncing it off another player’s back and then proceeds to recover it, how would the play be scored? Furthermore, say he scores after recovering it; would he get credited with an assist? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@PatrickM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickM)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/14 "2003-03-29T21:13:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JaxBeachBoy \* > \*\*\ > > Wasn’t Moses Malone famous for getting 4-5 rebounds/possession by repeatedly tipping his own misses? \*\* I don’t know about that, but my fuzzy memory recalls that one season after winning the offensive rebounding statistical title Moses thanked his teammates for missing so many shots! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/15 "2003-03-29T21:23:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quasar \* > \*\*Thanks for your expert clarifications, **tsm**. Two more questions: > > When a player attempts a desperation last-second shot before the buzzer goes off and he misses the shot, how would it be scored? It should count as a shot attempt since the ball was shot in regulation, but the ball is recovered by neither team since when it bounces off the backboard time has expired and the play is dead. What is the criterion for scoring the play? > > When a clever player intentionally gets a ball inbounds by bouncing it off another player’s back and then proceeds to recover it, how would the play be scored? Furthermore, say he scores after recovering it; would he get credited with an assist? \*\* I’m taking an educated guess here, but I believe that on those desperation shots if someone catches the rebound, he gets credit for it. If not, then it’s a team rebound for the other team if it just bounces away. You can’t give yourself an assist by throwing the ball off a defender. An assist requires a pass that leads to a basket. Bouncing the ball off of an opponent is not a pass in my book. Hockey does not allow players to get credits for assists on goals they are credited for. ---
**Author:** ![tsm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@tsm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/16 "2003-03-29T21:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quasar \* > \*\*Thanks for your expert clarifications, **tsm**. Two more questions: > > When a player attempts a desperation last-second shot before the buzzer goes off and he misses the shot, how would it be scored? It should count as a shot attempt since the ball was shot in regulation, but the ball is recovered by neither team since when it bounces off the backboard time has expired and the play is dead. What is the criterion for scoring the play? \*\* Yes, if the ball was shot in regulation, it does count as a shot attempt. This season, the NBA has even had the refs start checking replays on last-second shot attempts to make sure the shot was off in time. As far as the rebound goes, it is normally just scored as a team rebound, even if someone comes up with it, because even if the ball is recovered, it is after time has expired. It’s a team rebound for the shooting team. The NBA stats program even credits a rebound of this type automatically. In college ball, that’s another situation where you have a deadball rebound. > [@](#): > > \*\*When a clever player intentionally gets a ball inbounds by bouncing it off another player’s back and then proceeds to recover it, how would the play be scored? Furthermore, say he scores after recovering it; would he get credited with an assist? \*\* Well, you can’t assist yourself on a shot, so that’s right out. I recall seeing a player bounce the ball off of an opponent’s back one time this season and I’m trying to recall it. You would either put it down as nothing (just a ball brought inbounds) or it would be a steal-turnover/steal-turnover. I want to say it would just be nothing since the other team never actually had possession. ---
**Author:** ![quasar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@quasar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quasar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/17 "2003-03-30T15:09:59Z")
This has turned out to be a really interesting thread. Another question: Say a defensive player skies for a rebound and accidentally tips the ball in his own basket. Is he awarded the board? Who is credited with the basket? ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/18 "2003-03-30T17:39:39Z")
I don’t know about a rebound, but the last offensive player to touch the ball is given the basket. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/19 "2003-03-30T19:52:55Z")
What about just flat out making the ball in the wrong basket. Who gets the credit? (maybe the closest offensive player?) ---
**Author:** ![tsm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@tsm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886/20 "2003-03-30T21:15:53Z")
OK. You guys stumped me with those, because those events seem to happen rarely in the NBA. I had to break out the stats book to find the answers. 😉 The NBA rules say that “if a defensive player deflects a shot but the ball still goes into the basket, credit the player who shot the ball with a field goal, as if no deflection had occurred. Do not credit the defender with a blocked shot.” That doesn’t exactly address the situation where a ball is tipped in while trying for a defensive rebound, though. Perhaps that is addressed by the next rule (which will also answer **whuckfistle** ’s question): “Should an offensive player accidentally shoot the ball into his opponent’s basket, credit the field goal and attempt to the nearest opponent to the basket. The player who took the shot should be charged with a turnover.” If the situation **quasar** asked about is covered by that rule, then it seems like it should be scored as a defensive rebound and then a turnover, with the basket being credited to the opponent nearest the basket. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/basketball-stat-question-blocks-and-steals/164886.md?page=2)