# Bathroom - are Americans anti-environmentalists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2001, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572 "2001-10-25T16:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/1 "2001-10-25T16:12:06Z")
Something I’ve noticed in public restrooms in America: Whenever a restroom has both a hot-air hand drier and a paper-towel dispenser, people invariably choose the paper towels…choosing the quick dry over the environmental benefits promised by the hot-air drier. Does this observation (that is, if it were to be proven true to proper scientific standards rather) prove that Americans, at heart, are not environmentalists, and will always choose their own immediate convenience over green concerns? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/2 "2001-10-25T16:35:06Z")
Hmmm? They usually are. Syllogism of refutation: 1. I am a native born U.S. citizen 2. I choose the dryers 3. Therefore, your premise is, ah, wack. New category proposal: Teeny Tiny Debates P.S. I separate out cans and newspaper. I use an unpowered push mower. I do not support oil drilling everywhere. I think alternative energy should be supported through tax credits. I believe in protecting endangered species–albeit not to the exclusion of any other considerations. Do a search, I am hardly a knee-jerk liberal. I have been compared to Joseph McCarthy, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson. [sub]by idiots[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/3 "2001-10-25T17:00:01Z")
Please provide a cite that hot air dryers are in fact more environmentally friendly than paper towels. Paper towels use renewable resources and are bio degradable. Hot air dryers use electricity which is usually produced via non-renewable fossil fuels that contribute to air pollution. I do not believe it is entirely clear that paper use = anti-environment. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/4 "2001-10-25T17:45:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*Something I’ve noticed in public restrooms in America: Whenever a restroom has both a hot-air hand drier and a paper-towel dispenser, people invariably choose the paper towels…choosing the quick dry over the environmental benefits promised by the hot-air drier. > > Does this observation (that is, if it were to be proven true to proper scientific standards rather) prove that Americans, at heart, are not environmentalists, and will always choose their own immediate convenience over green concerns? \*\* I think it shows that hot air driers don’t work worth a damn. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/5 "2001-10-25T17:57:26Z")
I just use my shirt to dry my hands. That way no paper or electricity is used. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/6 "2001-10-25T18:04:03Z")
I believe hot air dryers are less sanitary. I’ve heard that drying with a towel wipes away some of the germs that a hot air dryer dries onto your hands. (Can’t guarantee this is true, though.) ---
**Author:** ![DSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSC)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/7 "2001-10-25T19:14:02Z")
I don’t use the towels instead of the dryer because I’m concerned about the environment. I don’t know anyone who does. Basically, I use the towels because they dry my hands better, and faster. On some dryers, you have to push a button with your hands (I usually use a knuckle) to get the dryer started. This adds even more bacteria to your pushing hand, due to the fact that everyone else has touched it to activate the dryer. You might find the same problem with those paper towel dispensers too, where you have to turn the handle to get the towel to come out. I like the dispensers that have the towels hanging free from the bottom. I can just grab the bottom towel. Then, I dry off, and use the towel to open the door (another spot for bacteria), prop the door with my foot, and toss the towel into the waste basket. I also generally use paper towels instead of the dishtowel to dry my hands at home. It seems cleaner somehow. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/8 "2001-10-25T19:17:21Z")
Darn hard to blow your nose with a dryer. ---
**Author:** ![Hibbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ce73a5/32.png) [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/9 "2001-10-25T19:41:55Z")
DSC > [@](#): > > On some dryers, you have to push a button with your hands (I usually use a knuckle) to get the dryer started. This adds even more bacteria to your pushing hand, due to the fact that everyone else has touched it to activate the dryer. **After they’ve washed their hands.** DSC > [@](#): > > You might find the same problem with those paper towel dispensers too, where you have to turn the handle to get the towel to come out. Again, after they’ve washed their hands. Though I concede that there could be the occaisonal instance of someone not washing and taking a towel to blow their nose or some such. Definitely not an issue with hand dryers. Myself I use the paper towels if given the choice. One; for convenience and two; in support of the pulp products industry. ---
**Author:** ![DSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSC)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/10 "2001-10-26T04:18:39Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* **After they’ve washed their hands.** Of course after they’ve washed their hands. That doesn’t mean they did a good job washing their hands, now does it? 🙂 They could have gone through the nose blowing scenario as you pointed out too. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/11 "2001-10-26T04:35:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* > Myself I use the paper towels if given the choice. One; for convenience and two; in support of the pulp products industry. \*\* Hell I work for a childrens book distributor, tree killin is our business. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/12 "2001-10-26T04:41:40Z")
If you **really** want to talk about environmentally unfriendly practices going on in American restrooms, you need look no further than the common flush toilet. In the Old Days (meaning back when we still lived in caves), your urine would go to putting minerals in the soil and watering the trees. Nowadays, not only is your urine washed wastefully out to sea, **you can use upwards of a gallon of additional fresh water just to flush it away!** Even with environmentally friendly “low flow” toilets, it’s still a heck of a lot more wasteful than tinkling on a tree or a bush. ---
**Author:** ![audient](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@audient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audient)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/13 "2001-10-26T04:48:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*If you **really** want to talk about environmentally unfriendly practices going on in American restrooms, you need look no further than the common flush toilet. > \*\* yeah. and you guys should be using those nice dryers instead of environmentally unfriendly toilet paper 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/14 "2001-10-26T12:34:26Z")
I guess this demonstrates an infallible method for determining if the next person you meet is an environmentalist. If their handshake is damp and clammy - they’re a tree-hugger. ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/15 "2001-10-26T12:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > Nowadays, not only is your urine washed wastefully out to sea, **you can use upwards of a gallon of additional fresh water just to flush it away!** Even with environmentally friendly “low flow” toilets, it’s still a heck of a lot more wasteful than tinkling on a tree or a bush. Haha! There is something really poetic about the idea of urine being “washed wastefully out to sea”. It conveys a real yearning for the urine. Anyway, my tupenny worth (could be considered a hijack, but I guess the debate isn’t exactly rattling along here, so I hope no-one minds): The toilets where I live in Germany are supposedly more enviormentally friendly than the water-guzzling UK and US thrones. But GOD are they awful. Instead of having a nice big bowl full of water, there is a flat-ish ledge, and a drop into a pool of water in front of it. So, when you, ahem, drop a log, it just sits looking up at you until you pull the flush. It doesn’t half create a stink. Even worse, I do on occasion crack off a MIGHTY beast of a turd (thank you, thank you), which steadfastly refuses to budge from the ledge when you pull the flush. It just sits there, mocking me, until I coax it off into the water with a bog brush. ---
**Author:** ![DJScherr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DJScherr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJScherr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/16 "2001-10-26T14:02:12Z")
Ha! Shows how much you know, I am an American and I am the most eco-friendly person you will find in the bathroom, I just don’t flush or wash my hands. No wasted water, no wasted electricity, no wasted paper towels. Simple solution! 🙂 Seriously though, I use the air dryer, if you are worried about germs, simply shut off your faucet with your forearm, there are germs on the handle. And for the air dryer, just hit the button with an elbow or forearm it works nicely. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/17 "2001-10-26T14:13:56Z")
Thinking about the hand dryer/towel issue, when I was in London I don’t remember seeing any paper towel dispensers in public toilets, just dryers (except for one place which had one of those horrid continuous cloth roller types - I can’t image that one being sanitary after a few hundred uses). Somehow this stands out a lot in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/18 "2001-10-26T16:11:40Z")
DJScherr wrote: > [@](#): > > if you are worried about germs, simply shut off your faucet with your forearm, there are germs on the handle. And there are germs on the doorknob, too! :eek: And germs in the air! My God! Quick! Somebody seal us all up in airtight plastic bubbles!! ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/19 "2001-10-26T17:47:27Z")
I believe the drier propaganda: as it says on the little plaque affixed to the top of the machine, driers are more sanitary and environmentally sound. I tend to think that more non-renewable resources will be used up in the harvesting of trees, the manufacturing of the paper, and the transportation of raw materials and product and _used_ product hither and thither, than are used up by the drier running for its alotted time. Unfortunately, the U doesn’t have hot air driers in _any_ of its restrooms, so I make do with taking the tiniest piece of paper towel that will do the job. I have the damp, clammy handshake of an environmentalist, for sure. And speaking of germs, a allow me to remind you of a recent classic: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990416.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990416.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572/20 "2001-10-26T20:26:14Z")
**cmkeller:** _Does this observation (that is, if it were to be proven true to proper scientific standards rather) prove that Americans, at heart, are not environmentalists, and will always choose their own immediate convenience over green concerns?_ I think the reason the OP’er hasn’t revisited this thread is because he’s laid up with a muscle strain from leaping to that conclusion. 😉 Goodness me, **Chaim** , even if it were true and conclusively demonstrated that (i) driers really are significantly more eco-friendly than paper towels, (ii) Americans are mostly well aware of this, and (iii) Americans nonetheless overwhelmingly prefer the towels anyway— none of which has been substantiated—it wouldn’t come close to proving that Americans are “at heart not environmentalists” or that we “will always choose our own immediate convenience over green concerns”. Many people are genuinely committed to developing more ecologically sustainable ways of living, but nonetheless are willing to indulge themselves in some minor wasteful preferences. Many others would like to live “greener” but don’t really know what changes are best worth making to achieve that. (I recommend the Union of Concerned Scientists’ publication [The Consumer’s Guide to Effective Environmental Choices](http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/guide.ch1.html) when it comes to identifying consumer choices that have the maximum conservation impact.) This hardly implies that they are simply selfish shortsighted pigs whose own immediate convenience is “always” more important to them. Unless you are choosing to define “environmentalist” to mean “someone who never fails to correctly identify and select the most environmentally responsible of the available options in all circumstances, even at the cost of significant personal inconvenience or sacrifice of personal preference”—a ridiculously stringent definition, IMHO—I think your hypothesis is a complete red herring. Certainly, there are lots of ways we Americans could be more environmentally conscientious as a society, but no, I don’t think you’ve somehow unearthed a profound hidden truth about our real natures from the observation of our paper towel use. This OP does indeed belong in “Teeny Tiny Debates”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-are-americans-anti-environmentalists/89572.md?page=2)