# Bathroom remodel - how on earth?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807 "2015-11-17T17:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/21 "2015-11-18T02:48:31Z")
A lot of good advice here. But, it doesn’t sound like fun. Have you thought about selling and buying another home? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/22 "2015-11-18T03:44:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pretty much anywhere in the US, when you’re redoing plumbing you need a permit. Especially if you’re adding a plumbing fixture. This is your master bath. Don’t treat it like you’re building a playhouse for the kids in the back yard. :dubious: When I’ve asked about permits they look at me like I have 2 heads. Now my garage extension was essentially a new structure. I had to get permits for the footer, and the electrical box that tied into my main box along with all the wiring. I over-engineered everything and ended up getting into an argument for leaving out their structural band-aids. If Boston is any indication of the state the OP probably has to get a permit to apply for permits. but I see no reason why the closet can’t come out and a longer tub installed. I don’t know how handy the op is but that’s a 2-3 month leisure project. If I were tearing out a wall and a tub I’d be inclined to gut the whole thing down to the studs and just start over. I do have one question. If there are crawl spaces on either side I’m picturing an A-frame setup with the walls angling to a peak in the middle. that would negate a standard tub enclosure. It would have to go sideways on the end with a center shower setup or a dormer installed. THAT’s a major tear down. I’d move first. I was thinking of a walk-in tub but again, it would probably hit the angled walls. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/23 "2015-11-18T03:59:01Z")
Have you thought about just installing a hot tub in the yard? You can get them cheap on Craigslist. This is going to be a very expensive project if you can’t do the work yourself. It’s going to take a while, and you have people (shudder) working in your house for months. I bet you could get a well-insulated small hot tub for a couple grand, installed in a few hours. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/24 "2015-11-18T06:03:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > :dubious: When I’ve asked about permits they look at me like I have 2 heads. Now my garage extension was essentially a new structure. I had to get permits for the footer, and the electrical box that tied into my main box along with all the wiring. I over-engineered everything and ended up getting into an argument for leaving out their structural band-aids. > > If Boston is any indication of the state the OP probably has to get a permit to apply for permits. but I see no reason why the closet can’t come out and a longer tub installed. The OP is not installing a “longer tub”. There is no existing tub-- he’s adding a new one. But why are you “dubious” about needing a permit when you say, in the next paragraph, that you think the OP needs to get one? They would, in fact need to get one [in Boston.](http://www.cityofboston.gov/isd/building/shortform.asp) ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/25 "2015-11-18T12:38:51Z")
I’m a contractor, and a good one. First thing is budget/investment. Here’s a guide to average costs for different kinds of projects in various areas of the US. These are pretty accurate numbers. Any bid that deviates a lot from these numbers should be suspect. [http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2014/east-north-central/](http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2014/east-north-central/) ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/26 "2015-11-18T14:20:34Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > FIRST THING!!! > Watch where you put the tub - water is heavy - a full tub + a 6’4" body = a LOT > Make sure the tub is DIRECTLY over a load-bearing wall. > > If you can’t ID a load-bearing wall, get someone in there who can. This. Here’s a [link](http://homeguides.sfgate.com/floor-framing-bathtubs-51932.html) explaining some of the requirements for supporting a bathtub. But bottom line - if this used to be an attic, then the joists probably weren’t designed to support a bathtub full of water and people. Be careful - you may well need an engineer to determine any support requirements when adding this type of load. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/27 "2015-11-18T15:26:40Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > I love that people are suggesting we could do parts of the work ourselves. > I am 0% handy and have less than 0 willingness to learn how to do the work, and watching my husband learn stuff and do some or all of the work would mean divorce. I know myself too well after all these years to not contract out all the work. 🙂 I get this, I really do, and I’m not trying to change your mind but just want to present this as an FYI for others. My wife and I are finishing up a major master bath renovation. We took out everything down to the studs, ceiling joists and subfloor. We installed a new ceiling (bead board over drywall), new walls, retiled the shower (floor to ceiling), retiled the floor, put in all new lights, vanity, toilet, moldings, fixtures, insulation and trim. We bought the supplies at the local big box DIY stores and did all of the labor ourselves. According to **fisha** ’s link for our area this job would have cost an average of $15k, we will end up spending less than 1/5 of that. The drawback is that working on it in our spare time means it has taken 5 times longer to get it done. Granted, I am pretty handy and actually enjoy doing this kind of thing (though I’m about tired of this project 😉 ), but with all of the info and videos on the net these days, most home repair/remodel is DIYable. Before this I had never installed a ceiling, repaired a concrete shower pan liner or tiled a shower (or anything vertical, for that matter). Mr. Google showed me the way! ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/28 "2015-11-18T18:00:45Z")
Seems like a lot of hassle and expense to fulfill a simple desire. I’d fix the show door and buy an outdoor hot tub/spa. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/29 "2015-11-18T18:17:24Z")
While the idea of an outdoor hot tub is interesting, we have a yard the size of a postage stamp and winter 6 months of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/30 "2015-11-18T20:11:33Z")
We ran our hot tub all winter in Maine. It’s fun sitting in hot water while the snow falls. 🙂 I’m not sure how big postage stamp size is, but they make them pretty small. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/31 "2015-11-18T20:53:48Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > We ran our hot tub all winter in Maine. It’s fun sitting in hot water while the snow falls. 🙂 > > I’m not sure how big postage stamp size is, but they make them pretty small. We use ours year-round, too. In Wisconsin. A stocking cap and a thermos of spiked cocoa are all you need. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/32 "2015-11-18T22:14:18Z")
My wife and I have completely renovated our 1920s rowhouse over the past ten years. We’ve done some of it ourselves when we first started. FWIW, the lessons I’ve taken from the experience: 1. take the time to think about what you want, go to a site like [houzz.com](http://houzz.com) to page through pictures of hundreds of projects and bookmark the ones you like. 2. Write up a simple scope of work on what you want 3. Use Angie’s List or a similar service and only look at those with excellent ratings (for contractors with A ratings on Angie’s List, you can use the threat of a bad review to get their attention if they are not being reasonable). 4. Get multiple quotes and meet with the bidders to talk about your job. If you don’t get a good vibe off a contractor, don’t work with them. If, for example, the contractor seems not to be listening to your ideas, or is dismissive of women clients (happens a lot), walk away. Anything they promise has to be in writing. 5. If you get some contractors that say you need to pull permits and others that don’t, check with the city, you could be liable if shoddy work is done without a permit that needed a permit. 6. Find out who is your project manager, get that person’s cell phone. Try to be home when they are working, or available to answer questions by phone while they are doing the work; it is easier to make changes while the work is in progress than after it has been done incorrectly. 7. If there is an element that is important to you, make sure it is in writing in the contract. 8. A reputable business person will be just as interested as you are in having a well written contract, be leery of contractors who seem like good guys who don’t need a lot of stuff in writing. 9. Have as complete a vision of what you want as possible before you start work; avoid change orders, which cause delays and can be exorbitantly expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/33 "2015-11-19T16:32:00Z")
I’m going to go through this thread carefully over the weekend and write a summary of the wisdom herein. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/34 "2015-11-19T16:49:55Z")
Verify with the state licensing authority that the contractor has a current valid license and check for any complaints or disputes against them. And how long has the license been held? Did he close down a previous business due to problems and just open up so he can start with a clean slate? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/35 "2015-11-20T00:09:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP is not installing a “longer tub”. There is no existing tub-- he’s adding a new one. But why are you “dubious” about needing a permit when you say, in the next paragraph, that you think the OP needs to get one? They would, in fact need to get one [in Boston.](http://www.cityofboston.gov/isd/building/shortform.asp) I misread her description. The smaller tub is in another bathroom. Depending on where the shower is the drain and water lines may already be in the right location. Clearly the op isn’t interested in doing the work so it’s on to a contractor and permits. ---
**Author:** ![Whatever4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@Whatever4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whatever4)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/36 "2015-11-20T00:27:44Z")
Only thing I can provide is what happened with the soaker tub we installed. Ex liked to shower first and soak afterwards. Never ever enough hot water to accomplish that, without adding a second or a larger hot water heater. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/37 "2015-11-20T13:03:19Z")
Make sure they have received all the materials before they rip up your bathroom. Our neighbors had theirs done and had ordered some tile that took a long time to come. Their bedroom and bathroom were unuseable for MONTHS waiting for the tile. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807/38 "2015-11-21T01:00:37Z")
> [@Whatever4](#): > > Only thing I can provide is what happened with the soaker tub we installed. Ex liked to shower first and soak afterwards. Never ever enough hot water to accomplish that, without adding a second or a larger hot water heater. Actually since it’s a 3rd story this would be a good time to consider an instant hot water heater. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bathroom-remodel-how-on-earth/737807.md?page=1)