# Batman kicks Al Qaeda's ass. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627 "2006-02-15T14:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/41 "2006-02-16T02:26:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What films question or oppose the War on Terror, as opposed to Iraq or particular aspects of that effort? Well certainly Farenheit 9/11 was pretty much making the case our reaction to 9/11 was excessive and foolish. But I’m thinking in much more broad terms. eg. \*Syriana \* is generally critical of the history of US involvement in the Middle East; _Munich_ questions the easy categorization of “terrorists” and warns of the dangers of retributive violence; that sort of thing. None of them directly address current US policy, but their creators obviously were influenced by it and audiences will inevitably ponder the possible implications. My point is that the reaction was very different from past wars. Hollywood’s job in WWII was to produce pro-war films, period. No studio would have touched a film with the political ambiguity of _Munich_ during WWII; damned few would have touched it even during Vietnam. What criticism of Vietnam there was was quite oblique (_MASH_), and offset by gung-ho stuff (_The Green Berets_). You’ll recall what happened to the Smothers Brothers when they challeneged the war. Again, I’m not necessarily saying this is a bad change – many argue that the essential role of the artist is to provoke and question, and that entertainers should have been doing then what it’s doing now. Leaving aside whether that’s true or not, the point is that it wan’t the view of our pop-culture producers in past wars. The change is notable. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/42 "2006-02-16T02:31:24Z")
Political and social commentary is there in superhero comics, but it’s often vague and usually shrouded in a layer or more of allegory or metaphor. For example, after Watergate, Captain America found himself facing a criminal conspiracy that ultimate led to the oval office. After the president was unmasked as the big bad, he killed himself. Green Arrow’s sidekick, Speedy, was written as a heroin addict in an era were addiction was seldom discussed, especially when it appeared among good kids like a superhero’s sidekick. More recently, The Return of Donna Troy featured a war with clear paraells to the current war in Iraq. The Titans of Myth invaded a planet on the pretext of finding hidden weapons of incredible power, which may have not existed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/43 "2006-02-16T02:42:43Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Again, I’m not necessarily saying this is a bad change – many argue that the essential role of the artist is to provoke and question, and that entertainers should have been doing then what it’s doing now. Leaving aside whether that’s true or not, the point is that it wan’t the view of our pop-culture producers in past wars. The change is notable. Yes, it is. In assessing that, I think we also have to consider the fact that this is a different kind of war. In addition to the fact that people aren’t being asked to sacrifice, the enemy doesn’t have a nation and is in some sense unidentifiable. It’s a situation that lends itself to greater ambiguity than fighting the Nazis. Though I agree that Hollywood used to be more “U-S-A! U-S-A!” then it is now. On the other hand, Hollywood also gave us _Dr. Strangelove_ at the height of the Cold War. Aside from _Duck Soup_, I’m not sure there’s ever been a better satire. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/44 "2006-02-16T04:01:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry, but you’re simply wrong. The president in The Ultimates IS George W Bush. He’s NAMED and drawn to look just like him. As for the Black Adam thing, it’s painfully obvious what they’re talking about. Your denial doesn’t make me wrong, it just means you won’t accept it. I’m not disputing it’s George Bush. I’m asking where the “a diatribe against the current administration” is? The series is about a group of agents who are working for the Bush Administration and shows how they are defending America against secreat threats. It’s about as subversive as a Rambo movie. Hell, it’s less subversive - Rambo didn’t trust the government. That said, I haven’t been following Black Adam. So I’ll concede it’s possible you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Selkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Selkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selkie)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/45 "2006-02-16T04:21:58Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Have you ever seen a comic book character take a stand on the Iraqi war? On gay marriage? On gun control? On abortion policy? Heck, have you ever seen a comic book character mention a real world candidate he or she was going to vote for? Missed the whole _very_ strongly pro-gay marriage plot in **Ex Machina** , I take it - a book saturated in real world politics from beginning to end? Or how about **Queen & Country** ’s very prescient story about women’s rights in Afghanistan that was written before (and, in a cruel twist of fate, published the week of) 9/11? **V for Vendetta** , **Watchmen** , some of the storylines in **Hellblazer** , or any of a variety of other intensely political comic books, with or without the men in tights. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/46 "2006-02-16T12:07:43Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I’m not disputing it’s George Bush. I’m asking where the “a diatribe against the current administration” is? The series is about a group of agents who are working for the Bush Administration and shows how they are defending America against secreat threats. It’s about as subversive as a Rambo movie. Hell, it’s less subversive - Rambo didn’t trust the government. Ah, so you haven’t actually READ the Ultimates, then? You’ve missed all the lines Thor had, missed the myriad of abuses and cover-ups in the series? Missed the way the US used supers to disarm a Middle Eastern country and the outrage it caused? Sorry, but you’re still just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/47 "2006-02-16T13:49:06Z")
[Miller’s Batman graphic novel story about Al Qaeda is hitting the mainstream press now.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060214/ts_alt_afp/afplifestyleusattacks_060214163702) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/48 "2006-02-16T15:02:35Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Sure bigotry exists. But do you hear many people talking in favor of bigotry? You cut my reference to Fred Phelps, I noticed. I could also have added Anne Coulter, who in front of an approving CPAC audience just recently referred to Muslims as “ragheads.” We’re sure enlightened, all right … :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Saying “I think prejudice is wrong” is an easy feel-good. It’s like saying you’re against starvation or cancer or illiteracy. Are you deliberately missing my point? I’m saying that in the WWII era, comics wouldn’t have even said that much about prejudice—as far as they were concerned, it didn’t exist, or was so common as to not even be recognized as such. Since when does a point of view have to be controversial to be socially or politically relevant? Besides, you’re being terribly simplistic in your view of how these topics may be presented. A kid reading an X-Men story in which the mutant characters suffer persecution isn’t being told simply, “prejudice is bad,” he is being shown **why** it’s bad. He sees that for all their heroism, many people will never trust the X-Men or accept them as fully-fledged members of society. For someone steeped in these characters and emotionally invested in them, that’s powerful, and a perfectly valid form of storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/49 "2006-02-16T16:16:48Z")
While I’m not disputing it’s propoganda, I’m not sure why anyone would have a problem that. We are not in a traditional war, but that only makes it even more neccessary. Propganda has an ugly ring, today, but it’s nothing more than an argument. It can be turned to purposes good and bad, and it need not involve lies. Keeping up morale is critical during war, and it is even more important when that war involves an enemy as intractable, insane, and evil as Islamic Fundamentalism. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/50 "2006-02-16T18:21:46Z")
Wait, “Batman kicks Al Qaeda’s ass” is a quote from Frank Miller? I thought the OP was making a Wesley Willis joke. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/51 "2006-02-16T20:26:40Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Please - comic books as a rebellious art form? Comic books are about as threatening to the establishment as TV sitcoms are. It’s considered a controversial political stance when the X-Men titles equate the anti-mutant movement with anti-semitism and racism. But stop and think for a second - do you know anyone who supports anti-semitism and racism? It’s just an easy way to sound like you’re being relevant while you avoid any real controversy. The problem with this argument is that the “racism” metaphor goes back to a period (the 1960s) when, yes, it **was** actually controversial to suggest that there was something seriously wrong with race relations. Also, the metaphor these days has extended to homophobia (obvious example: the “Have you ever thought of not being a mutant?” line in the second movie), which isn’t exactly a settled issue. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/52 "2006-02-16T20:31:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Anyway, there’s a degree of removal in this war that just didn’t exist in WWII. Celebrities were exhorting people to support the war effort by buying bonds, conserving rubber, and that sort of thing. Nobody’s needed to do that this time around. Heck, any media effort in that direction (e.g. Bill Maher’s _When You Ride Alone, You Ride With Bin Laden_) is itself perceived (correctly, in that case) as a criticism of the government’s position rather than a mobilization effort. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627/53 "2006-02-16T20:41:32Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > And the Batman and Daredevil stuff\* is so vague \*cited re your question of whether comics had addressed the gun control issue I don’t recognize the Daredevil reference offhand, but the Batman one is most likely this item: > [@](#): > > Next came Virginia. Efforts to pass a one-handgun-a-month law in Virginia had floundered for years, until Democratic Governor Douglas Wilder made gun rationing his top priority for 1993. Wilder said that “The surest way to stop the number of guns available for illegal sale is to place limits on the numbers that can be purchased legally.” In support of the proposal, Governor Wilder sent every legislator a copy of a recent issue of “Batman” comics, which apparently had been written in order to assist the anti-gun cause in Virginia. In the Batman episode, Virginia was portrayed as the main gun-running state in the east. One character complained that tough gun laws had not been enacted “because some fat white bastard wants to play with his guns on a weekend.” The writers made Batman himself endorse total gun prohibition, claiming that violence “will end when we decide that we don’t want guns in our houses, in our neighborhoods, in our schools, in our hands. It will end when we decide to get rid of the guns we have and not get more.” Like many advocates of gun rationing, the Batman writers saw gun rationing as merely a step along the path towards eliminating all guns. > > According to Batman, non-Virginians traveled to Virginia, purchased multiple handguns, and then took them back to Gotham City to sell on the black market. Ever since the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which banned handgun purchases outside one’s state of residence), such purchases were federal felonies, with especially strict penalties for trafficking of multiple handguns. (The statutes are found in volume 18 of the U.S. Code, sections 922(a)(1) & (5), 924(b).) If this is “vague”, then a baseball bat to the skull is a “vague” indication of ill will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-kicks-al-qaedas-ass/344627.md?page=2)