# Batman (Michael Keaton) (spoilers, but who cares?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076 "2005-06-13T14:22:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/21 "2005-06-13T19:03:39Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > I really liked Wayne as Batman. Wow, talk about unboxed spoilers! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/22 "2005-06-13T19:13:10Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > In 1956, another story showed that Chill was hired by gangster Lew Moxon to kill Thomas Wayne and make it look like a random mugging. Moxon suffered the same fate as Chill. Well, Moxon was actually so freaked out by Batman’s confrontation (wearing the bat-costume Thomas Wayne had worn when Moxon had kidnapped him decades earlier - it’s a long story) that he panicked, ran blindly into a busy street and was run over by a truck. Anyhoo
 if they ever make a Dark Knight movie, I am _so_ rooting for Rutger Hauer. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/23 "2005-06-13T19:15:19Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Anyhoo
 if they ever make a Dark Knight movie, I am _so_ rooting for Rutger Hauer. I would totally agree, I really love him
but isn’t he getting kind of long in the tooth now? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/24 "2005-06-13T19:27:32Z")
I have to day that as far as being what it was meant to be, Batman Forever is the best. And Val Kilmer was basically forced to play his role that role. I mean, the film needed him to be the straightman, at least as Bruce Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/25 "2005-06-13T19:44:46Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I would totally agree, I really love him
but isn’t he getting kind of long in the tooth now? Well, so is the Batman portrayed in the Dark Knight comics. Heck, if special effects can allow an 83 year-old Christopher Lee to fight hyperkinetic light saber battles, I’m sure Hauer can be used as effectively. I just get a much greater sense of menace from Hauer’s left pinky than from Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney combined. I’ll go see Bale tonight. I’m sure he’ll do fine. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/26 "2005-06-13T19:47:44Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, so is the Batman portrayed in the Dark Knight comics. Heck, if special effects can allow an 83 year-old Christopher Lee to fight hyperkinetic light saber battles, I’m sure Hauer can be used as effectively. > > I just get a much greater sense of menace from Hauer’s left pinky than from Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney combined. I’ll go see Bale tonight. I’m sure he’ll do fine. Ok, then Hauer! Because I adored him in LadyHawke, even with the super-cheesy music. Those oh-so-cold eyes
and that weathered face
I think I half fell in love with him myself. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/27 "2005-06-13T19:50:23Z")
How about Victor Garber from _Alias_ for Dark Knight Returns? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/28 "2005-06-13T19:54:04Z")
Huh. Just noticed Hauer has a role in _Batman Begins_, as “Richard Earle” (menacing, I hope). Also, Richard Brake is credited as “Joe Chill”, so I guess this movie is going back to the comic-book story and dumping the whole Jack Napier thing, which is okey-dokey with me since I dislike stories in which there’s some big cosmic sense of destiny tying all the characters together (i.e. Bruce Wayne’s parents’ killer is the exact same guy he will fight years later; Yoda meets Chewbacca during the clone wars; a young Greedo is watching the pod race, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/29 "2005-06-13T19:57:37Z")
Yeah, the Joker isn’t even in this new movie, have no fear. I always wanted to see David Bowie play the Joker, especially the effeminate Joker from Dark Knight Returns. I always thought Bowie could make him compelling, menacing, more than a little fey, and damn creepy all at the same time in a way that Nicholson’s macho, manic portrayal didn’t accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/30 "2005-06-13T19:58:58Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Huh. Just noticed Hauer has a role in _Batman Begins_, as “Richard Earle” (menacing, I hope). Also, Richard Brake is credited as “Joe Chill”, so I guess this movie is going back to the comic-book story and dumping the whole Jack Napier thing, which is okey-dokey with me since I dislike stories in which there’s some big cosmic sense of destiny tying all the characters together (i.e. Bruce Wayne’s parents’ killer is the exact same guy he will fight years later; Yoda meets Chewbacca during the clone wars; a young Greedo is watching the pod race, etc.) Or Clark Kent and Lex Luthor were best friends in Smallville. :rolleyes: I’ve never seen an episode of the TV show, but I understand they’ve recently shoehorned (more like sledgehammered) this bit of stupidity into continuity in the comics as well. Totally contrived, not to mention unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/31 "2005-06-13T20:06:53Z")

Young Greedo watching the pod race? 
Uhhhhhmmmmm
 What? And wasn’t the young Lex and Clark being friends part of Superboy continuity at some point? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/32 "2005-06-13T20:14:11Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Batman and Robin sucked ass. But Batman Forever is, IMHO, the most watchable of all the flicks. Some of the visuals are truly comic booky, and I’m a sucker for Jim Carrey. Sure, but he was just doing a Jack Nicholson-Joker wanna-be routine. And having Tommy Lee Jones doing _another_ Jack Nicholson-Joker wanna-be routine was too much. I say to just watch the first **Batman** movie, then go straight to the various WB animated Bat-stuff. **Mask of the Phantasm** spanks the live-action movies so hard in terms of writing, characterization, action, pathos, and suspense, it’s not even funny. And Arnold Schwarzenegger’s Mr. Freeze isn’t worthy to be mentioned in the same time zone as the animated Victor Fries – there’s a _damn_ good reason “Heart of Ice” won an Emmy
 ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/33 "2005-06-13T20:16:54Z")
[QUOTE=Push You DownAnd wasn’t the young Lex and Clark being friends part of Superboy continuity at some point?[/QUOTE] Yes, but it was wisely done away with post-Crisis (as was Superboy himself) in an effort to streamline the mythos. Really, why do Superman and Luthor need some sort of contrived history or forced “connection” to be enemies? Luthor is a bad guy. That’s all Superman needs to want him stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/34 "2005-06-13T20:20:28Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > 
Young Greedo watching the pod race? 
Uhhhhhmmmmm
 What? > And wasn’t the young Lex and Clark being friends part of Superboy continuity at some point? Superboy met young Lex Luthor in a story titled, subtly enough, “How Luthor Met Superboy”, in _Adventure Comics_ #271 (1960), which among other elements included Superboy’s rather careless use of his superbreath to extinguish a fire in young Luthor’s lab, spilling some chemicals that made Luther’s hair fall out. I suppose this might help explain the lifelong obsession and hatred L feels for S. Post-Crisis, the premise of a youtfhul encounter was dropped. Greedo’s scene in _Phantom Menace_, deleted for theatrical release but included on the DVD, involved a fistfight with Anakin (offhand I forget if Greedo swings first) and a warning from Qui-Gon that young Greedo would come to a bad end if he didn’t adjust his attitude. Unlike the Luthor/Superboy thing, in which a complete story is told about the youthful encounter, Greedo’s intended presence in Ep 1 and Chewbacca’s in Ep 3 add nothing except moments of fanwankery. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/35 "2005-06-13T20:25:40Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > fanwankery. What a wonderfull term. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/36 "2005-06-13T20:40:22Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > For a while, I think writers identified the killer as “Joe Chill,” but I think this is largely ignored nowadays (and I’m not sure why, but it’s more effective to have the killer be nameless). In Detective Comics #678 (part of Zero Hour), Batman discovers Joe Chill was incapacitated at the time of the murder, leaving him clueless as to who killed his parents. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/37 "2005-06-13T21:41:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What a wonderfull term. 🙂 I thought so, too. It’s definitely not original with me. Evil Captor has the first documented use in the CafĂ©, March 2004, and I’m quite certain it didn’t originate with him. [The Six Minute Guide to Fanwank](http://www.fedvideo.net/6m2/fanwank.htm), and they probably didn’t invent it, either. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/38 "2005-06-13T22:12:34Z")
> [@Alias](#): > > The colors, the music, the architecture, and the actors are absolutely perfect. Alas, the dialogue reeks. Sample: “Are we going to try to love each other?” Not a terrible movie, but to me it was very disappointing. I have high hopes for the new franchise, though. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/39 "2005-06-13T23:05:04Z")
I posted this in another thread about 3 weeks ago, but here goes again: I rented this movie last month and was disappointed. I hung with the Goths in 1988/89/90, so this movie was pretty popular among my social group at the time of its release. On second veiwing, I thought Keaton was brilliant. I liked his portrayal of Bruce Wayne. I thought Jack Nicholson was just playing, well, Jack Nicholson. Maybe it was Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson playing Dennis Hopper. He was too old and fat to be the Joker. He seemed to lack the requisite energy and appeared to be, well, acting. Kim Basinger’s character and subplot were superfluous and really added nothing to the story. It seemed completely tacked-on. I’m renting the 2nd one with DeVito & Pfeiffer tonight, I remember it as being better than the one with Nicholson. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/40 "2005-06-14T03:09:10Z")
Well, saw _Batman Begins_
 I tell ya, it something when a jaded fan like me feels an actual honest-to-God no-fooling _tingle_ at the end of a movie. See it. See it often. Bale rocks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076.md?page=3)