# Batman (Michael Keaton) (spoilers, but who cares?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076 "2005-06-13T14:22:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sir\_Dirx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sir\_Dirx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Dirx)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/41 "2005-06-14T05:15:45Z")
All this talk of the Batman movie and no mention of [this](http://www.brunching.com/howbadbatman.html)? I liked the movie. I didn’t love it, but it was my favorite out of the four (well, five now, but I haven’t seen _Begins_ yet). I will say that I was sorely disappointed with the portrayals of Penguin and Catwoman–the latter being my least-favorite incarnation of the villainness/anti-heroine until the recent Catwoman movie. I guess I just miss Julie Newmar / Eartha Kitt / Lee Meriwether. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/42 "2005-06-14T06:29:18Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I always wanted to see David Bowie play the Joker, especially the effeminate Joker from Dark Knight Returns. I always thought Bowie could make him compelling, menacing, more than a little fey, and damn creepy all at the same time in a way that Nicholson’s macho, manic portrayal didn’t accomplish. No no no no no. Jeremy Irons Bowie would be good; possibly #2 even. But you can’t beat the man. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/43 "2005-06-14T15:27:28Z")
In 1988 (89?) when this came out I was at the theater for the first showing on the first day. It was huge at the time. It changed the look of all comic book movies to come. Remember the last big budget superhero movie was Superman part 37 or some crap. They could again try a straight plot without all the cheese and camp and know it would sell. I would love to see \*Dark Knight \* done, but along with _The Watchmen_ if you didn’t grow up in the 80’s it just doesn’t feel right. Between the yuppies and the cold war and Reagan as a backdrop of the go-go money obsessed, MTV is new pre internet times it doesn’t translate. Too bad they already killed the Joker, I’d love to see Jeremy Irons in \*A Killing Joke. \* Although it’s not very PC to have all those dead boy scouts lying around. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/44 "2005-06-14T15:32:48Z")
Irons would be good, now that you guys mention it. How about Mark Hamill, who captured the Joker’s voice perfectly for Batman: The Animated Series? Do you think he could pull it off for real? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/45 "2005-06-14T16:01:33Z")
I’ve all four of these Batman movies. Batman, Keaton is terrible both as Bruce Wayne and that could be anybody in that batsuit. A Batman that can’t bend at the waist or even turn his neck? Please! Vicky Vale? She is supposed to be a news photographer that has photographed massacres and yet when some flowers pop out of a box she faints? The Joker was great. Now if the movie was titled The Joker, than at least we would have a little truth in advertising. And remember, Alfred just shows Vicky the Batcave! The entire series had every vehical destroyed every time. The batmobile, the batjet, the batboat, if you see a vehical, it gets blowed up. I really hated the multiple villians in all the later films with Arnold being the worst. (though making his henchmen sing I’m Mr. White Christmas was brillant) I think Patrick Stewart could have made a great Mr. Freeze. My problem with Val, well the biggest, was the same problem with him playing the Saint. I’m in a disguise, ignore those obvious moles on my face that you’ve seen in all my incarnations, a bunch of people have those. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/46 "2005-06-14T16:08:33Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Irons would be good, now that you guys mention it. How about Mark Hamill, who captured the Joker’s voice perfectly for Batman: The Animated Series? Do you think he could pull it off for real? Hard one there. Certainly he was great in the show–but the last live-action Hamill I’ve seen was _Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back_. It would be interesting to give him a serious role in live action just to see what he could do if he really wanted to. That would be more worry with Irons and Bowie, is whether they could do a proper Joker laugh. From my recollection of Bowie in the Labyrinth, his menacing laugh wasn’t up to snuff there for certain. And I’m not certain I have ever heard Irons laugh… **Jeremy Irons** Acting: A frickin + Look/Physique: B+ (thin and menacing, but no snear) Laugh: Unknown **David Bowie** Acting: B Look/Physique: A- (tad of a belly last I saw him, so minus) Laugh: C **Mark Hamill** Acting: B? Look/Physique: C+ (kinda short and not very thin…) Laugh: A- (Good, but still not what I hear in my head when reading the comic) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/47 "2005-06-14T16:14:34Z")
**Zebra** : Wow, you must really hate the movies. 😃 Anyway I was willing to put aside most of the objections you raise. I did wonder about Alfred bringing Vicky to the BatCave. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/48 "2005-06-14T16:20:29Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Heck, if special effects can allow an 83 year-old Christopher Lee to fight hyperkinetic light saber battles, I’m sure Hauer can be used as effectively… I had no idea he was that old. I would have guessed about 20 years younger. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/49 "2005-06-14T16:26:39Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > I had no idea he was that old. I would have guessed about 20 years younger. He played Dracula to Peter Cushing’s (Grand Moff Tarkin) Van Helsing in the Hammer movies. [Link](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051554/) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/50 "2005-06-14T17:22:47Z")
Wasn’t there a Batman story where Batman TEAMED UP with Joe Chill to fight another costumed vigilante? I remember it being terrible: but recent, one of the “re-starts” inspired by the success of Miller’s “Year One.” I also liked the three-part Batman Superman team up that they released as a movie: World’s Finest I think they called it. Batman and Superman really do compliment each other quite well as heros. All their dual appearances were pretty great in the Superman series: I especially like the one where Batman vanishes and Superman goes to investigate… ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/51 "2005-06-14T17:44:50Z")
Ah, **Batman** memories . . . where to begin? I was a 14-year-old Batman geek in 1989, and wore my Batman t-shirt to the midnight showing on the much-anticipated day of June 23. Oh how I counted the days until that movie, watched every preview clip on Entertainment Tonight, scoured magazines like _Starlog_ for any tidbit of info I could find. I could hardly contain myself when at last, in that dark theater, Danny Elfman’s wonderful main theme announced the beginning of the film. Two hours later I walked out thinking, “That’s _it_? I waited six months for _that_?” I wouldn’t be more disappointed in a movie until 1999 and the debut of a certain Mr. J.J. Binks. In retrospect, Burton’s **Batman** wasn’t a _terrible_ movie . . . it was just a startlingly mediocre one. I had bought into all the hype, convinced I was going to see a faithful adaptation of the character that echoed Miller’s \*Dark Knight \* and _Year One_. No more “BAM! POW!” campiness and scenery-chewing, the producers said. This was a _serious_ Batman. And indeed Batman \*himself \* was serious, but the rest of the movie was \*still \* campy as all get out. Only instead of 60s-style hippie-dippy camp, we got 80s-style dark and artsy camp. The script was just a series of clumsily strung-together set pieces, many of them serving no other purpose than letting Jack Nicholson be Jack Nicholson. I was expecting him to go for a scary combination of the psycho Joker from the comics and Jack Torrance from _The Shining_; instead he reminded me more of Cesar Romero. He was such a buffoon that you kind of felt sorry for him at the end when Batman was beating the daylights out of him. Keaton actually gave a pretty good performance – he seemed to understand the character better than the director did – but as others have stated here, he just wasn’t physically convincing. Acting skills or not, anyone playing the role has to be physically imposing enough to look threatening in the batsuit. Christian Bale looks really creepy in those shadowy publicity shots from _Batman Begins_. Keaton looked and moved like a plastic action figure with only four points of articulation. (I remember people in the theater laughing during the scene where he’s running goofily down the streets of Gotham with Vicki Vale, unable to even turn his head.) Still, the movie never reached the point of all-out suckage until the ending sequence in the streets of Gotham. First, Batman steals the Joker’s poison-gas-filled parade balloons by somehow catching the cables between a _giant pair of pliers_ on the front of the Batwing – a feature Bruce apparently included on the slim chance that he might have to one day rescue the city from giant poison-gas-filled parade balloons. Uh-huh. Then he sets up his X-Wing Fighter radar to zoom right the hell in on the Joker, who is standing right the hell in the middle of the street, and fires a round of missiles that proceed to hit _nowhere near the Joker_. To cap off this head-scratching sequence, the Joker then pulls out a long pistol and takes down the Batwing with _one shot_! At that point I think I just gave up. Other random stupidities: 1. The Joker killing Bruce’s parents. I was so hoping they wouldn’t stoop to that level of ridiculous coincidence. They did. 2. Batman killing people. Batman has always had a personal code against killing – it’s practically the only thing that makes him a clear hero rather than just a revenge-obsessed lunatic. The fact that they ignored that important aspect of his character showed that they either didn’t understand or just didn’t care. 3. Gotham City, while cool to look at, wasn’t the slightest bit convincing as an actual teeming metropolis. The city in _Blade Runner_, for all its grotesque aspects, seemed real; Gotham felt like a sound stage. I kept waiting for Patsy to appear and mutter “It’s only a model.” So yeah . . . I was disappointed. And here we are, 16 years later, and once again I’m giddy with geek excitement about a new Batman movie, because THIS time, hopefully, they’re going to get it right. I’m so gullible. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/52 "2005-06-14T18:04:26Z")
That’s a pretty good review, and all your gripes are perfectly valid. I will add that the Prince soundtrack hopelessly dates the movie as late '80s, when it should have had a timeless/“out of time” quality thanks to Danny Elfman’s breathtaking musical score. ---
**Author:** ![want2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@want2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2know)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/53 "2005-06-14T19:42:33Z")
Count me in as a vote for **Batman Forever**. Jim Carrey was the perfect choice for the Riddler, and Tommy Lee Jones’ Two-Face was, IMHO, the best of all the Batman villains.But my major reason for this being my favorite is simply that I don’t like the brooding, tortured “Dark Knight” persona. Don’t get me wrong; I liked the first two movies just fine (though I agree that Batman Returns was a bit too dark). It’s just that–well, reality carries with it its own share of depressing moments–when I watch super-heroes, I want it to be an escape from that. Maybe it’s just the kid in me, but if I had superior physical strength, all the money in the world, and the chance to do some good in the world with both, I’d feel pretty good about it! “Batman and Robin” continued that positive spin on the character, and the cast did the best they could with an (IMHO) inferior script. The biggest problem for me was Alicia Silverstone. I think she was just too “girly”. Someone like Hilary Swank would have been my preference. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/54 "2005-06-14T19:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > (and I’m not sure why, but it’s more effective to have the killer be nameless). That’s easy. Every time the Batman goes up against some random villain, it could be the one. If he knows who the killer was, his revenge could be focused. But if it’s just some nobody without a name, his vengeance instead must encompass everyone and everything. He can’t find closure. ---
**Author:** ![Elvez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@Elvez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elvez)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076/55 "2005-06-14T23:19:07Z")
> [@Sir Dirx](#): > > All this talk of the Batman movie and no mention of [this](http://www.brunching.com/howbadbatman.html)? > > I liked the movie. I didn’t love it, but it was my favorite out of the four (well, five now, but I haven’t seen _Begins_ yet). I will say that I was sorely disappointed with the portrayals of Penguin and Catwoman–the latter being my least-favorite incarnation of the villainness/anti-heroine until the recent Catwoman movie. I guess I just miss Julie Newmar / Eartha Kitt / Lee Meriwether. Not to hyjack this thread, but, WOW! I forgot all about Brunching Shuttlecocks. I love that site! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-michael-keaton-spoilers-but-who-cares/308076.md?page=2)