# Batman spolers wanted! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464 "2004-05-04T14:31:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/21 "2004-05-25T21:03:43Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Well, I think the reason that people don’t like DKSB as much as DKR is because it was poorly billed. DKSB is NOT a Batman story. It’s a Superman story. I don’t really think that’s it, either. One of my friends told me that Moore was sort of preasured into making DKSB and really didn’t want to, so he essentially decided he was going to use it to fuck Batman’s story over. It was just a piss-poor comic in every way. _The Dark Night Returns_ is one of the best comic book stories out there, but DKSB was a horrible piece of shit with terrible retconning on all the main characters (both Batman and Superman start killing without a second thought), the plot was absurd, and there was no ending, it just stopped. It was a terrible book, and Moore obviously didn’t care about doing a good job. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/22 "2004-05-25T22:17:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > The sequels to **Red Rain** were just kind of grotesque. I can’t say that they were even grotesque in an entertaining way. Interesting. My enjoyment of that series grew as the artwork became more bizarre and garish. That probably says something about me which I’d rather not pursue. > [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > I don’t really think that’s it, either. One of my friends told me that Moore was sort of preasured into making DKSB and really didn’t want to, so he essentially decided he was going to use it to fuck Batman’s story over. It was just a piss-poor comic in every way. The Dark Night Returns is one of the best comic book stories out there, but DKSB was a horrible piece of shit with terrible retconning on all the main characters (both Batman and Superman start killing without a second thought), the plot was absurd, and there was no ending, it just stopped. It was a terrible book, and Moore obviously didn’t care about doing a good job. I agree with your sentiment **Elvis**. Hate to nitpick, but let’s not drag the good name of Alan Moore through Frank Miller’s mess. At least I think Moore still has a good name, I believe he was sufficiently distanced from the LXG movie. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/23 "2004-05-26T01:28:23Z")
Gah! You’re right, I fudged it. Miller’s the one who was fed angry with having to make this sequel and decided to smash it…Moore just kinda got dragged along. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/24 "2004-05-26T17:56:19Z")
To add to the “does Batman kill?” question, we recently picked up one of the DC Archives hardbacks of Golden Age Batman comics. The following is a trascript of my exclamations while reading the first maybe 20 pages. “Oh my god, Batman’s carrying a gun!” “He’s driving Bruce Wayne’s shiny red car!” “Holy…Batman just threw a guy off a building! To his death!” “Ok, now he threw down poison gas pellets, killing a room full of criminals.” Apparently Batman got real serious about not killing people sometime in the 1970s. Of course, through the Silver Age Batman was lighter and much, much goofier. Incidentally, \*Nightwing \* is a pretty cool series. I especially like Dick’s relationship with Tim Drake. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/25 "2004-05-26T17:59:35Z")
I particularly enjoyed the cold-blooded way he killed off Dr. Death’s assistants. He strangled the first to death with his silk rope, and broke the second’s neck with a well placed (and deliberate) kick to the head. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/26 "2004-05-26T18:14:19Z")
It was the late fifties or early sixties when Batman turned away from guns and killing. But I have to say, you’re not adding to the discussion by pointing it out, since I already did : > [@](#): > > Batman doesn’t kill. Witness Frank Miller’s Dark Knight Returns, where even this jaded, darker Batman hesitates when it comes to killing the Joker … who ultimately kills himself. > > That said, back in the Golden Age, Batman would sometimes be shown to kill or use guns … but the Silver Age and Beyond Batman views both of those as no-nos. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/27 "2004-05-26T18:22:17Z")
Yeah, Candid, you da man. :rolleyes: May we touch your shadow? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/28 "2004-05-26T18:26:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Yeah, Candid, you da man. :rolleyes: > May we touch your shadow? Just doing my bit to cut down on redundant posting. You’re welcome. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/29 "2004-05-26T18:27:44Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Just doing my bit to cut down on redundant posting. You’re welcome. 😛 Why should I thank you for contributing to a hijack? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/30 "2004-05-26T18:43:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Why should I thank you for contributing to a hijack? Gee… Pot to Kettle, Pot to Kettle, Come in, Kettle… > [@Scumpup](#): > > I particularly enjoyed the cold-blooded way he killed off Dr. Death’s assistants. He strangled the first to death with his silk rope, and broke the second’s neck with a well placed (and deliberate) kick to the head. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/31 "2004-05-26T19:23:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I particularly enjoyed the cold-blooded way he killed off Dr. Death’s assistants. He strangled the first to death with his silk rope, and broke the second’s neck with a well placed (and deliberate) kick to the head. See, that’s the thing…when I asked my friends who actually read (or read…man, that’s hard to translate well in writing) Batman, many of them were able to come up with instances in the past few years where Batman killed people without much hesitation when he could have simply just beat them into submission. Snapping necks seems to be his new MO, it would appear. Outside of this, are there any other instances where Bats has killed anyone? (they’re usually henchmen) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/32 "2004-05-27T01:40:09Z")
I need a spoiler: so what finally happened to Bruce Wayne’s bodyguard, who knew he was innocent of murder? ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/33 "2004-05-27T02:38:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I need a spoiler: so what finally happened to Bruce Wayne’s bodyguard, who knew he was innocent of murder? After Cain confessed to the murder of Fairchild and Wayne was exonerated of all charges, I assume she was released (the confession ends the _Bruce Wayne: Fugitive_ collection). She had served ~ 6 months between the pre-trail and post-conviction on accessory to murder charges. It was rather crappy of Bats to abandon her while totally disavowing his Wayne persona for a long period after his own escape. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/34 "2004-05-27T03:25:17Z")
So, there are these two guys in a lunatic asylum… ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/35 "2004-05-27T05:01:41Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > So, there are these two guys in a lunatic asylum… … … … Wh-what do you think I am? CRAZY? You’d turn it off when I was half way across! ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/36 "2004-05-27T07:55:49Z")
Batman _did_ [lock a guy in the sewers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=229527) once—in recent years—to let him starve to death. He (the villain) got away. But in general, no, comics Batman doesn’t kill. (Aside from in “Elseworlds”) Not even the Joker—who regularly escapes prison and murders or maims people. Often with chemical weapons. Tim Burton movie Batman, however, kills plenty of people, when the situation called for it. I don’t know if the Batmen in the _last_ two movies killed anyone…but he should have, if only to spare them the pain of existing in those godawful movies. But, of course, Batman is able to kill undead beings (Vampires, zombies, etc.) and artificial beings (androids, robots, A.I. computers, etc. But not cyborgs). But pretty much all heroes are able to kill such creatures, no matter how sentient or self-aware they are. :dubious: Oh, and you might find the book [Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/078947865X/qid=1085644076/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-6793930-6356907?v=glance&s=books). It’s only a couple of years old, so it’s pretty up to date, and it’ll give you a good update on Batman, his allies, Batgirls and Robins, Bat-Equipment, etc. You could probably even find it at your local library for free. By the way, be sure to ask someone here to explain the “Crisis” and the “No-Man’s Land” storylines. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464/37 "2004-05-27T08:27:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I need a spoiler: so what finally happened to Bruce Wayne’s bodyguard, who knew he was innocent of murder? As best as I can remember, a spy agency who was impressed by her faked her death and broke her out of prison. Bruce tracked her down, but the whole affair had shaken her relationship with him a little, and she decided to stay with the agency to give them some distance so she could sort things out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-spolers-wanted/243464.md?page=1)