# Batman v Superman....wtf? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765 "2016-03-21T13:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/41 "2016-03-21T21:50:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but he couldnt stop the machine, until he stopped Zod. So- _that_ was the fight. thats not accurate - he had to stop the machine (and did, using his ‘baby’ ship to create a black hole (?) that sucked all of krypton into it and pucnhing a hole thru the world maker) , then he could deal with Zod afterwards - and did. If he had chosen to fight Zod without taking out the machine first - even more of Metropolis, and the world, would have been devestated. half the destruction of metropolis (and that poor city on the other side of the world that no-one bothers to mention) was the fault of the machine - alot of other destruction was caused by the fight between Kal and Zod. The fight in Kansas between the Army, Zods men and Superman was definitely one that Superman would/should have tried to move - but Zods folks chose the battleground. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/42 "2016-03-26T05:30:45Z")
Faulting comic book movies for being predictable is dim witted. Of course you know how the movie ends. It’s how you get to that ending that matters. It’s only an idiot who needs originality all the time. I know the plot to Hamlet. I’ll no doubt reread it several times before I die. Even though it’s predictable, it’s still the greatest piece of literature ever written. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/43 "2016-03-26T07:46:33Z")
As an aside, the concept of Superman representing optimism in crimefighting and Batman cynicism as a point of conflict between them started, IIRC, sometime in the Seventies in the comics. That, at least, is where I first remember seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/44 "2016-03-26T09:21:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And I think the exact opposite. DC and the previous movies whitewash what kind of damage a couple of Kyptonians would do, especially when one of them doesn’t care about the damage he is doing. You could pretend that maybe a Coke sign and a bus will be all that gets damaged. I happen to like the more realistic feel. Then you don’t like Superman. Superman is about optimism. He’s the ultimate good guy. Wanting a gritty story about how superhumans would hurt people is fine, but it’s not what Superman is about. They call him the "Big Blue Boy Scout: for a reason. He’s fundamentally an optimistic character. Sure, you can get a lot of drama of challenging that optimism, once you set it up. But when you just make him a shitty person from the beginning, it doesn’t work. I actually wasn’t sure how they were going to put Batman in this film, since Superman is already at Batman levels. I thought maybe they’d make it interesting and reverse their roles, but I found out that’s not the case. It’s as much out of character as Kirk is in the new Star Trek movies. But at least there’s an excuse for that: time travel changed things. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/45 "2016-03-26T11:52:10Z")
Superman is mad at Batman because he isn’t being played by Adam West. Batman is mad at Superman because he thinks that it’s still baseball when you use a designated hitter. I can’t decide whom to root for. Or whom to root harder against. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/46 "2016-03-26T12:58:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > For you: An exceedingly common trope in superhero comics is having two heroes meet for the first time, and mistake each other for supervillains. Often, there’s an actual supervillain in the background, misleading one or both of them. There’s a number of reasons for it. Narrativly, in a genre where the hero always wins, pitting two heroes against each other injects some uncertainty of outcome. It also plays into common fan arguments about whose favorite hero can beat whose favorite hero. … > > For your grandson: Lex Luthor tricks them into fighting each other. This is an excellent summary and the perfect answer to the OP’s question. It completely captures everything I would have said. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/47 "2016-03-26T13:04:23Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It would work if it it involved a smart villain who requires intelligence on the part of the hero to defeat. > > Alas, there are no smart villains in superhero movies these days; it’s all brute force and interminable fight scenes. Heath Ledger’s Joker was so smart that he was effectively a supernatural being. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/48 "2016-03-26T13:54:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Then you don’t like Superman. Superman is about optimism. He’s the ultimate good guy. > > Wanting a gritty story about how superhumans would hurt people is fine, but it’s not what Superman is about. They call him the "Big Blue Boy Scout: for a reason. He’s fundamentally an optimistic character. > > Sure, you can get a lot of drama of challenging that optimism, once you set it up. But when you just make him a shitty person from the beginning, it doesn’t work. > > I actually wasn’t sure how they were going to put Batman in this film, since Superman is already at Batman levels. I thought maybe they’d make it interesting and reverse their roles, but I found out that’s not the case. > > It’s as much out of character as Kirk is in the new Star Trek movies. But at least there’s an excuse for that: time travel changed things. You can take an optimistic Superman and put him in the real world. That’s a movie. Marvel killed the type of movie you want. Special effects have caught up to comic book writers imaginations. Audiences want to see what a real Superhero fight would look like. Not a silly fight against that can get cleaned up with a broom. Two Kryptonians fighting in the middle of the city will cause damage. Glossing over that is silly. Thinking that Superman would be able to take every fight into the middle of the desert is also silly and would make a very boring movie. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/49 "2016-03-26T13:55:30Z")
Slight correction to _Man of Steel_: I’m pretty sure that Superman only fought Zod once he came back from the Indian Ocean; I don’t believe the other machine was actually over a city or anything. It was out in the middle of the sea. Supes wasn’t around to stop the doomsday weapon over metropolis, which had to be done by mere mortals. Superman did tell them how to do so, however. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765/50 "2016-03-26T17:26:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Heath Ledger’s Joker was so smart that he was effectively a supernatural being. And that’s Batman’s job! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-v-superman-wtf/749765.md?page=2)