# Batman vs. a mighty Badhnesian Thunderbolt **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149 "2005-01-05T04:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/21 "2005-01-06T01:49:09Z")
Ah, my old nemesis, we meet again. At last, you provide me with a challenge. (Actually, you got me beat with one of 'em, but I can dismantle most of the rest! 😃 ) > [@Askia](#): > > Number one was already done in [my previous post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5682356&postcount=5) And on that one, you fell into my trap-If you get to pick an egotistical T-Bolt, I get to pick which version of Batman–and I choose the “grandpa” Bats from one of the late '50s future-stories where Robin is the new Batman (only in this one, Robin’s about to retire and Bruce Jr is the new Batman with Robin’s kid becoming the new Robin). Grandpa Bats is about as effective as Grandpa Simpson, is wheelchair bound, has a beard that goes down to his knees and is also vaguely senile (and he’s the comedy relief). Even egotistical T-Bolt wins. Hell, against _this_ Batman, _Johnny_ wins! 😛 And even if you _do_ figure out a way for a senile, wheelchair bound Batman to win, I’ll simply pick again and choose “Batboy and Ruben” from Mad Comics #5 (or so). > [@](#): > > 1. The thunderbolt lives in a freaking pen. Batman walks up to Johnny Thunder and with minimal misdirection needed to distract someone who’s functionally retarded, picks dude’s pocket and walks off. Yeesh. It’s probably in his bat-trophy case by now. He only lives in the pen after Johnny gave him to Jakeem. I already chose the pre-Crisis T-Bolt. No pen. > [@](#): > > 1. As Johnny Thunder mutters “Cei U!” Batman goes on the evasive. Ducking into a conveniently situated nearby manhole, he waits in the sewers in the damp and deep shadows as the thunderbolt pursues him below. Attaching a extenal voice synthesizer to his larnyx, he perfectly mimics Jonny Thunder’s voice inflections and phraseology and gives the djinn a simple two word command that banishes it forever: “Get lost.” With nary a whisper, the thunderbolt disappears, probably to an unsuccessful continuity-be-damned reboot over at the VERTIGO imprint. Now this one is not only fucking brilliant, it echos the “how do I get rid of Myztxptlk?” motif from the Superman books (and I think Superman used that stunt once–albiet with a wire-recorder) Thus, even if I _could_ weasel out, the power of tradition is on your side. I concede this one and doff my hat to you. Well done! 😃 > [@](#): > > 1. As the battle commences, Batman questions whether Johnny thunder is really the seventh son of a seventh son born on the seventh day of the seventh month. Batman points that the Thunderbolt is the victim of culture clash: namely, the recording of time. He out that due to the discrepencies between the Badhnesian calendar, the Julian calendar, and the modern Gregrian calendar, the “seventh month and seventh day” applications don’t apply at all (not to mention [Pope Gregory’s modifications that basically erased nine days from history!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_Calendar)) Although Johnny Thunder may well be the seventh son of a seventh son, Batman convinces the thunderbolt that he’s still got the wrong master. The thunderbolt, flummoxed and befuddled, agrees and vanishes, leaving a woeful Johnny Thunder for Batman to console. “I was perfectly happy to keep this little calendar tidbit to myself, but then you had to come after me,” explains an unrepentant crusader. Mmmm…maybe—this one’s a coin-flip. Either the T-Bolt says “So what–good enuff for me, and besides, I don’t care how your calender converts it, the Badhnesian calender’s what I’m concerned about.” and then turns Batman into a Creamsicle[sup]tm[/sup] OR he vanishes in a puff of logic. > [@](#): > > 1. The thunderbolt reacts to voice commands, making it extremely vulnerable to sonic attacks. Batman whips out the “its-in-Elseworlds-continuity-so-I-get-to-use-it-in-this-scenario” sonic disrupter from the original DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and zaps the genie’s eardrums until it retreats into Johnny Thunder’s pen. Then he encases the pen inside a condom and has someone swallow it and mule it out of the country, where it winds up in a filthy public toilet somewhere south of the border like – I dunno – Palomar. Nope. A) The T-Bolt is an energy being. I doubt he _has_ eardrums. B) If you get to pull the “Elseworlds” gimmick, so do I and the T-Bolt pulls out _working_ Infinity Gauntets, a cosmic cube, The Shaper Of Worlds AND Kubik and an ultimate nullifier. To start. 😃 > [@](#): > > 1. Batman suggests that the Thunderbolt go back in time to the 1950s and turn Gotham into a series of easily broken into warehouses where all kinds of oversized gadgets and novelty items are sold. The Thunderbolt turns pink, round, short, pulls on a homemade bat-suit, dubs himself Bat-Mite and everyone lives happily ever after except the 1950s Batman. Snerk. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/22 "2005-01-06T14:05:16Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Now this one is not only fucking brilliant, it echos the “how do I get rid of Myztxptlk?” motif from the Superman books (and I think Superman used that stunt once–albiet with a wire-recorder) Thus, even if I _could_ weasel out, the power of tradition is on your side. I concede this one and doff my hat to you. Well done! 😃 And, to boot, Geoff Johns just had Future-Batman pull a similar stunt to revert Captain Marvel 3 to Freddy Freeman in Teen Titans. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/23 "2005-01-06T18:31:53Z")
What I want to know is, who would win between Batman and Ripped Shirt, Early Season Kirk? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/24 "2005-01-06T18:42:10Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > What I want to know is, who would win between Batman and Ripped Shirt, Early Season Kirk? That’s what I wonder every time I see one of these Batman Vs. threads. Kirk, after all, nearly beat a man endowed with godlike powers in a Fistfight, without any nancy accessories. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/25 "2005-01-06T20:04:25Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Ah, my old nemesis, we meet again. At last, you provide me with a challenge. (Actually, you got me beat with one of 'em, but I can dismantle most of the rest! 😃 ) My worthy adversary – it has been too long. What larks, eh, **Fenris?** What larks. > [@](#): > > If you get to pick an egotistical T-Bolt, I get to pick which version of Batman–and I choose the “grandpa” Bats from one of the late '50s future-stories where Robin is the new Batman (only in this one, Robin’s about to retire and Bruce Jr is the new Batman with Robin’s kid becoming the new Robin). Grandpa Bats is about as effective as Grandpa Simpson, is wheelchair bound, has a beard that goes down to his knees and is also vaguely senile (and he’s the comedy relief). Even egotistical T-Bolt wins. Hell, against _this_ Batman, _Johnny_ wins! 😛 And even if you _do_ figure out a way for a senile, wheelchair bound Batman to win, I’ll simply pick again and choose “Batboy and Ruben” from Mad Comics #5 (or so). I should be glad you didn’t just invent a Batman to fight, like, I dunno. Rick James Batman. The mere existence of Grandpa Batman is a strong argument why elderly superheroes should be euthanized. But you seriously underestimate Batboy and Rubin. The MAD Batboy isn’t just some flurshlugginer superhero. He’s a VAMPIRE Batboy! Therefore functionally immortal, with inhuman strength, shapeshifting abilities and hypnotic powers – and the ability to withstand sunlight. You need to pick someone more ineffectual like the “mod” sideburns-sporting Son of Batman. > [@](#): > > He only lives in the pen after Johnny gave him to Jakeem. I already chose the pre-Crisis T-Bolt. No pen. Oh, yeah. Uh… but… um… er… eh… shit. Let’s just move on. > [@](#): > > Now this one is not only fucking brilliant, it echos the “how do I get rid of Myztxptlk?” motif from the Superman books (and I think Superman used that stunt once–albiet with a wire-recorder) Thus, even if I _could_ weasel out, the power of tradition is on your side. I concede this one and doff my hat to you. Well done! 😃 Glad you liked it. Confession: The “get lost” quote was stolen from an episode of the 1980s TWILIGHT ZONE where THE JEFFERSONS Sherman Helmsley saves the Earth from a mavolent genie played by BARNEY MILLER’s Ron Glass in the manner I described here. I agree the solution is pretty brilliant to what was at best a goofy episode, which is why I’ve remembered it all these years. > [@](#): > > Mmmm…maybe—this one’s a coin-flip. Either the T-Bolt says “So what–good enuff for me, and besides, I don’t care how your calender converts it, the Badhnesian calender’s what I’m concerned about.” and then turns Batman into a Creamsicle[sup]tm[/sup] OR he vanishes in a puff of logic. Clearly I’m hoping for the second option. See, Johnny Thunder was kidnapped by Bagheisna agents, and it’s my supposition that the agents screwed up and picked the wrong person. Because July 7, 1917 at 7am is not the seventh hour of the seventh day of the seventh month of 1917 even under the standards of the Gregorian calendar. Why? Batman would point out that 1917 is the first year after the official commencement of Daylight Savings Time and that any child born on the seventh hour in July would really be born an hour earlier than what the clock says, and because of the Julian and Gregorian calendar differences, more than a full week off from whatever day it would have been under the Julian calendar. I’m only presupposing the existence of a Baghensian calendar which would probably make the time differences even more striking. Really, this is so logical Cecil would agree. > [@](#): > > Nope. A) The T-Bolt is an energy being. I doubt he _has_ eardrums. B) If you get to pull the “Elseworlds” gimmick, so do I and the T-Bolt pulls out _working_ Infinity Gauntets, a cosmic cube, The Shaper Of Worlds AND Kubik and an ultimate nullifier. To start. 😃 Don’t “nope” me. If he’s got ears, and he can hear audible commands, he’s got eardrums, or somethng very close, which damn well should be affected by sonics – at least in the short term. Anyway, I see your weapons and counter them with a patron’s card to the Library of Dreams, a Moebius Chair, Thor’s hammer Mjolnir, a Green Lantern ring powered by a pre-yellow impurity main Oan battery, Black Panther’s Galactus Contingency Plans, and a Monterey Jack grilled cheese sandwich on honey oat bread, cut perpendicular and served with fresh squeezed scuppernog juice and a nice bowl of three bean chili. Hurry up! I’m Rick James Batman, bitch. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/26 "2005-01-06T21:45:25Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Don’t “nope” me. If he’s got ears, and he can hear audible commands, he’s got eardrums, or somethng very close, which damn well should be affected by sonics – at least in the short term. Not necessarily. There is a real device called a laser microphone, which bounces a laser off of objects and analyzes the object’s vibrations with a computer, thus reconstructing the sound waves that created the vibrations in the first place. So an energy being could perceive sound in this way, thus rendering sonic weapons useless against it. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/27 "2005-01-06T22:25:06Z")
> [@Kaitlyn](#): > > I remember a Pre-Crisis parallel Earth story that disputes this–no cite on the issue. Batman and Robin travel to a parallel Earth, and as fate would have it time passes at a different rate there. It just so happens, by pure coincidence, that they’ve arrived a week before Joe Chill will kill the Waynes. > > Robin figures out that there will never be any superheroes on this world (IIRC he does this by looking stuff up in the library. Not some cosmic library, or a magic library, the public library. Or maybe he had a time viewer. I forget which), so they shouldn’t stop the killing. This world needs Batman. > > They end up saving the Waynes anyway, and irony of ironies, Bruce becomes Batman anyway. Instead of being inspired by his parents’ murder, he’s inspired by reading books about Robin Hood, and he grows up into a happy, well-adjusted kinder-gentler vigilante, rather than a dark, brooding thug. > > That said, the T-Bolt takes down Bats, especially if it’s the blue one. Couple nitpicks. Robin says that he thinks there will be no superheroes, Batman himself calls this “supposition not deduction”, it’s only a theory. He thinks this because the star that Krypton orbited didn’t exist and there wasn’t any heroic literature. Also, the Bruce Wayne of that world became Batman because of his gratitutde for the masked figure that saved his parents. Not from reading Robin Hood because, as Robin said earlier in the story, that world had no Robin Hood. 😃 Oh and since magic in the DCU is based on symbolism, not fact (as said in Books of Magic), it doesn’t matter if the Gregorian calender is arbitrary or not. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/28 "2005-01-07T00:26:52Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Not necessarily. There is a real device called a laser microphone, which bounces a laser off of objects and analyzes the object’s vibrations with a computer, thus reconstructing the sound waves that created the vibrations in the first place. So an energy being could perceive sound in this way, thus rendering sonic weapons useless against it. Hmmm. “useless” is probably a stretch. Even if the sonic weapon doesn’t induce pain and disorientation, it should prevent the energy being from “hearing” the vocal commands direct to it unless there was another mechanism in place to filter out different sounds. > [@Odinoneeye](#): > > Oh and since magic in the DCU is based on symbolism, not fact (as said in _Books of Magic_), it doesn’t matter if the Gregorian calender is arbitrary or not. As magician/scribe/mad genius Alan Moore pointed out in an early issue of PROMETHEA, deconstruction is the sword that cuts through the symbolic bullshit. It’s rather an effective tool that;s useful in science and magic. The full definition of Johnny Thunder’s birthright is the “seventh son of a seventh son born of the seventh hour of the seventh month of the seventh day of the year that ends in seven.” The more you challenge the symbolic validity of those conditions to the sentient thunderbolt using cold logic, the more apt you are to win simply by arguing your viewpoint. There is a loooOng tradition of doing this actually working in comics books and literature. Ask Superman about defeating Mr. Myxlptlk. Ask Dr. Susan Calvin about RB-34. I’ve already debunked the “seventh day” by pointing out the missing week of the Gregorian calendar in the seixteenth century would throw off the dates in 1917. Well, it turns out it’s the wrong month too – in antiquity, the “seventh month” of the Julian calendar was September, not our current month of July. Whatever the Baghensian calendar was, it probably didn’t align with that, either. Daylight Savings Time is a manmade time construct outside the Gregorian timetable. It was first enacted in 1916 – and I doubt the Badhensians accounted for that when they kidnapped Johnny Thunder. If they kidnapped Johnny because he was born at 7am, too bad. It was really only 6am because Daylight Savings Time pushes the clock up an hour. They should have kidnapped a child born at 8am. Also, the “seventh son of a seventh son” thing could bear a closer look – all it takes is one stillbirth, female birth, miscarriage or childhood death to throw off the birth order of the surviving children. In the 13 births preceding Johnny Thunder’s over two generations across the late 19 century, that’s rather likely someone would have died. Still, **Odinoneeye** , there is a chance that this won’t work. Writer Warren Ellis described things working despite inaccurate facts as “consensus reality” re: the death of Jenny Sparks at the ‘end’ of the millennium on December 31, 1999. But then again, with all those other wrong dates, maybe not. Batman would succeed if he used this gambit: he’s awfully more persuasive than I. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/29 "2005-01-07T00:40:50Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I should be glad you didn’t just invent a Batman to fight, like, I dunno. Rick James Batman. I’m Batman, bitch! ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Frank\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_2)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149/30 "2005-01-07T14:16:44Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Glad you liked it. Confession: The “get lost” quote was stolen from an episode of the 1980s TWILIGHT ZONE where THE JEFFERSONS Sherman Helmsley saves the Earth from a mavolent genie played by BARNEY MILLER’s Ron Glass in the manner I described here. Isaac Asimov used this in the his 1947 story [“Little Lost Robot”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Lost_Robot) which was in the book I, Robot. Sorry for the highjack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-vs-a-mighty-badhnesian-thunderbolt/283149.md?page=1)