# "Batshit crazy" --original source? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397 "2007-08-21T17:36:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/1 "2007-08-21T17:36:08Z")
how old is this expression? Where did it come from? what does it mean, specifically? Is it worse than being tin-foil-hat crazy? please, please, please, …tell me…before I go, well, bat—t crazy. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/2 "2007-08-21T17:50:26Z")
No cite but I’d say it was a development from the simple _bats_ meaning crazy, which itself is an abbreviated form of _bats in the belfry_, ie wrong in the head. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/3 "2007-08-21T22:10:59Z")
I remember doing this one in the recent past. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=361946&highlight=batshit+crazy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=361946&highlight=batshit+crazy) from March, 2006. Not as recent as I thought. My addition to that thread was > [@](#): > > Batshit shows up first in print about the 1950’s in military speak to mean rubbish and bullshit. By 1970, it meant crazy. Probably derived from bullshit. > > You can find people saying “batshit crazy” and “batshit insane” by the late 1980’s. . ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/4 "2007-08-21T22:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti] No cite but I’d say it was a development from the simple _bats_ meaning crazy, which itself is an abbreviated form of _bats in the belfry_, ie wrong in the head. [/QUOTE] That, along with our daffy tendency to shoe-horn a vulgar word into an innocent word (abso-fucking-lutely, guaran-damn-tee,) gives you _batshit crazy_. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/5 "2007-08-22T00:31:08Z")
Actually, it comes from a classic storyline in \*Batman \*comics, circa 1970. Batman investigates a new crime spree in Gotham. He discovers that the criminal underworld are getting their instrustions from a mysterious new Napoleon of crime known as \*The Mastermind. \* Eventually he discovers that The Mastermind is actually his own BatComputer gone insane. All the bats flying around the BatCave, dropping turds on multi-million dollar equipment have caused a short circuit. Just as you’d expect, really. What the hell was Bruce Wayne thinking putting his base there? Anyway, Robin famously cried out “Holy shit, Batman, the BatComputer has gone BatShit crazy” and thus created the two expressions, _holy shit_, and \*BatShit crazy \*at the same time. [Sorry, DrDeth](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=432486) ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/6 "2007-08-22T02:07:28Z")
I always thought it was because you can get rabies through inhaling bat guano in caves and people with rabies would appear to be crazy. Since it was a crazy caused by batshit, they were batshit crazy. [sub]Okay, yeah, I really had no idea.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/7 "2007-08-22T02:45:42Z")
Hmmm. Read all this, and samclem’s link, too. I think it comes, instead, from simple observation of bats. When you watch them fly, especially in droves from a nice settlement at sundown, they fly around willy-nilly in wild patterns, seemingly random, but it makes sense with their food source…nocturnal insects. When bats emerge at dusk, as a colony ,it’s a feeding frenzy, and they don’t fly out as birds, they fly all awhirl and about, kinda crazy. Up and down, loop de loop, and all around, going with their sonar sense in pursuit of all those ADD insects that don’t fly in straight lines neither. That’s the bat part. The shit part is elaboration. Batshit Crazy means wildly flailing about. ---
**Author:** ![Tibidabo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Tibidabo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibidabo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/8 "2007-08-22T08:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] _Batshit_ shows up first in print about the 1950’s in military speak to mean _rubbish_ and _bullshit_. By 1970, it meant _crazy_. Probably derived from _bullshit_. You can find people saying “batshit crazy” and “batshit insane” by the late 1980’s. [/QUOTE] This makes sense. Though, I’m almost certain Hunter S. Thompson uses both ‘batshit’ and ‘batshit crazy’ in _Fear and Loathing on the Capaign Trail '72_. He may well have been ahead of the trend though, given his writing style. And he was discharged from the Army in '58, which I suppose would explain his fondness for the word in the first place… ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/9 "2007-08-22T09:31:01Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Anyway, Robin famously cried out “Holy shit, Batman, the BatComputer has gone BatShit crazy” and thus created the two expressions, _holy shit_, and \*BatShit crazy \*at the same time. [/QUOTE] I don’t care what the “real” answer it, you win. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/10 "2007-08-22T22:02:47Z")
One blog I read theorizes it’s a mashup of “going apeshit” meaning acting like an upset simian who flings his feces at zoo goers and “going batty” as in having bats in ones belfry. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/11 "2007-08-24T02:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=Tibidabo] This makes sense. Though, I’m almost certain Hunter S. Thompson uses both ‘batshit’ and ‘batshit crazy’ in _Fear and Loathing on the Capaign Trail '72_. He may well have been ahead of the trend though, given his writing style. And he was discharged from the Army in '58, which I suppose would explain his fondness for the word in the first place… [/QUOTE] At least 58. Keenan Wynn’s character in Dr Strangeglove is named Colonel Batguano. It seems that the expression must have been common by 1964 in order for it to be a joke in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/12 "2007-08-24T16:42:21Z")
Only slightly related to OP…but something I always got a kick out of. There is a town in MT named Belfry (at least there was when I was growing up) Guess what their mascot name for the school was? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marvin8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbce88/32.png) [@Marvin8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin8)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/13 "2010-12-04T01:39:48Z")
I was gonna mention Dr. Strangelove before Loach did. Great minds obviously think alike. 🙂 Every film student who’s seen Dr. Strangelove knows that one of the major certifiable nuts in the film is Bat Guano, which is another name for bat shit. Put the two together and you’ve got proof that the term dates back to at least 1958. In fact, it could be this film that invented it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/14 "2010-12-04T02:07:48Z")
> [@Marvin8](#): > > I was gonna mention Dr. Strangelove before Loach did. Three years ago?:dubious: > [@](#): > > Every film student who’s seen Dr. Strangelove knows that one of the major certifiable nuts in the film is Bat Guano, which is another name for bat shit. Put the two together and you’ve got proof that the term dates back to at least 1958. In fact, it could be this film that invented it! 😃 _Dr. Strangelove_ appeared in 1964, although the book it was loosely based on _Red Alert_, appeared in 1958. I assume that Col. Guano was first introduced in the movie. Was such a character in the book? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/15 "2010-12-04T02:32:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Three years ago?:dubious: I’m ahead of my time. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/16 "2010-12-04T05:49:56Z")
I always thought that batshit and bullshit were chosen because they are especially pungent. I don’t actually know from first hand experience but that’s what I’ve heard - I think. I never got the part about adding crazy to it though, but I like the explanation about it being a military expression. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/17 "2010-12-04T06:03:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > At least 58. Keenan Wynn’s character in Dr Strangeglove is named Colonel Batguano. It seems that the expression must have been common by 1964 in order for it to be a joke in the movie. Actually, his last name is “Guano” and his nickname is “Bat.” Sellers’ great delivery of the line “Colonel [pause] Bat Guano, if that really is your name–” makes the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/18 "2010-12-04T23:06:42Z")
Good question. I always thought it was connected to rabies, which is associated with bats and craziness. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/19 "2010-12-06T01:10:51Z")
batty 1580s, “pertaining to bats,” from bat (n.2). Slang sense “nuts, crazy” is attested from 1903, from the expression (to have) bats in (one’s) belfry , also meaning “not right in the head” (1901). [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), “batty,” in Online Etymology Dictionary. Source location: Douglas Harper, Historian. [Batty Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/batty). Available: [http://dictionary.reference.com](http://dictionary.reference.com). Accessed: December 05, 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397/20 "2010-12-09T00:28:45Z")
I hypothesize that the word “Batshit” is emblematic of the general coarsening of American speech that occurred during and subsequent to World War II. To my ears, there’s something vaguely effete about “batty”, a connotation that “Batshit” lacks. I suspect that a civilian during the 1940s would not have perceived these 2 words in that way. These developments occurred in parallel to more general trends towards informality, starting near the dawn of the 20th century. > [@chappachula](#): > > please, please, please, …tell me…before I go, well, bat—t crazy. Apologies for the 3+ year delay. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batshit-crazy-original-source/416397.md?page=2)