# Battery life--much improved for cars, but not for phones and laptops. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093 "2022-01-02T19:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/1 "2022-01-02T19:51:20Z")
This thread is inspired by a scene I saw recently in a doctor’s waiting room: there was only one electric outlet, but 4 people wanting to charge their devices. It was comical, but also a bit ugly, to see 4 adults fighting like children over a single toy. So my simple question is: why can’t anybody make a battery that lasts longer? For cars, there has been a vast improvement in just a few years. The earliest electric cars had such short battery life that they were almost useless–if you drove more than 30 minutes , you didn’t have enough battery power to drive back home. Today,car batteries provide much, much longer drive time, and allow you to use the car normally. How did car batteries improve, but cell phones have not? They still go dead with normal use. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/2 "2022-01-02T20:01:09Z")
They can but would rather make the battery as small as they can, giving the phone a slimmer profile and more room for other stuff in the phone. This also means pushing the battery to hold a bit more, but at the expense of its total life. So batteries in phones may always be just enough to give one a reasonable day of use, and last long enough in years that you should upgrade in 2. When we make a better battery, great that means we can make it even smaller, so capacity and life is the same as before, but we have a slimmer phone crammed with more cameras. ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/3 "2022-01-02T20:06:32Z")
I wonder if today’s phones and laptops might use a bit more power. I remember my Motorola Razr flip phone going several days on a single charge. One of the first thing I noticed when I upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy S4 was that the battery life was not nearly as long; I had to charge it basically everyday. The Razr’s battery was less than 740 mAh and the S4’s battery was 2,600 mAh. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/4 "2022-01-02T20:51:19Z")
Phones today have bigger, brighter screens and a CPU that is immensely more powerful than even 5 years ago. The batteries are just keeping up. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/5 "2022-01-02T21:12:02Z")
@kanicbird has it. The emphasis on super slim phones, tablets, and (especially) Mac systems has come at the expense of battery life. Especially as we demand more performance at all times. It’s really noticeable in laptops - I use an older form factor laptop and was side-by-side with a ultralight weight user. Their system was at least 3 years newer - but I got over an hour of battery life despite using a ‘gaming’ scale laptop than they did on the ultralight just browsing the web and word processing. About cars - they’ve also gotten smarter about not-using power when they can avoid it - turning off at stops, regen braking, etc. Phones and laptops _have_ power saving features, but they compromise performance so much they’re normally turned all the way off. I have to keep my MiL that if she wants more duration, she can’t be using 100% brightness all the time. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/6 "2022-01-02T23:03:26Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Phones today have bigger, brighter screens and a CPU that is immensely more powerful than even 5 years ago. The batteries are just keeping up. This - a phone can usually(!) last the whole day, possibly two. Anything more is overkill, like the idea of an electric car dragging around 1000 miles of range when 90% of trips are less than an hour or two. There’s a design sweet spot, so it makes more sense for a phone to have better features - processor, screen, networking, etc. - than to have, say, a 7 day life. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/7 "2022-01-03T00:00:23Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Phones today have bigger, brighter screens and a CPU that is immensely more powerful than even 5 years ago. The batteries are just keeping up. When I read the thread title, I suspected (but didn’t know for sure) that batteries for phones _are_ much improved—it’s just that the phones themselves and/or the amount that people use them place more demands on those batteries. I also thought the question was referring to old-fashioned gas-powered cars, for which I didn’t think battery life had improved all that dramatically in recent years. Then I saw the OP mentioning “the earliest electric cars.” Isn’t it fairly typical for the earliest just about _anything_ to use primitive technology with lots of room for improvement? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/8 "2022-01-03T00:02:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Isn’t it fairly typical for the earliest just about _anything_ to use primitive technology with lots of room for improvement? - Well, a Model T and a Bugatti Veyron are both cars, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/9 "2022-01-03T00:23:03Z")
Energy density for lithium ion batteries has improved for both cars and phones. However, the primary driver for increased range for cars has just been the _size_ of the battery, and that has been largely driven by improvements in packaging. The first EVs from traditional automakers just stuffed batteries wherever they could into their existing cars. My grandmother has a Ford Focus EV, which gets a whopping 70 mi (not really–more like 50 mi) range by filling the trunk with cells. It’s a stupid design driven by Ford doing the absolute bare minimum needed to meet California EV mandates at the time (they’ve gotten better with the Mach E and F-150 Lightning). Tesla on the other hand pushed hard on the skateboard concept, where the entire underside of the car is packed with cells. Not only does this not intrude on interior space, but it allows a much greater volume of cells. They weren’t using any specially good cells, but it meant they could pack 100 kWh of cells in vs. 20 kWh from other makes. Pretty much everyone now is using the skateboard layout, to varying degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/10 "2022-01-03T00:39:36Z")
I upgraded from a Samsung Galaxy S4 to an S8, and my battery life improved tremendously. I’m seldom below 50% at the end of the day unless I used it really heavily. I’m a boring user - mostly wifi connected, few videos etc. However I keep my location on now where I didn’t before, because it killed my battery. I wonder if some of the battery issues people see are from doing things impossible or very inconvenient on older phones. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/11 "2022-01-03T00:48:07Z")
I’m a little confused because actually it has got a lot better for phones. You don’t even need a top of the range phone (my current one cost something like £159, sim-free) to have smart charging that tops it from zero to 100% in half an hour, and many of the apps have changed to be less battery draining too. Five years ago I needed to take a charger everywhere. These days I can go a day or two without even though I’m using my phone a lot. The batteries might not have got better, but the chargers and the apps have. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/12 "2022-01-03T01:49:35Z")
They have improved, I can’t remember the mah ratings of various phones I’ve owned, but I know its grown over time. This chart of iphones says the iphone 3 went from about 1200mah to about 4000mah with the iphone 13. > **[iPhone Battery Sizes (mAh) – iPhone 3GS to iPhone 13](https://www.knowyourmobile.com/user-guides/iphone-battery-sizes/)** > > From the iPhone 3GS to the iPhone 13 Pro Max, we take a look at how the iPhone battery sizes have changed over the years… Apple’s iPhone has developed rapidly over the course of the last decade. You have changes to how it functions, near-constant... ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/13 "2022-01-03T01:58:49Z")
If all you wanted to do with your phone was make phone calls (imagine that!), the battery would last a lot longer. But if you want a Cray supercomputer, GPS navigation device, worldwide communicator, camera, video recorder, internet browser and multi-media player in your pocket, ya gotta pay the price. Smartfone manufacturers are always trying to balance battery life & size, features, cost, and customer tolerance. Personally, I feel if a pocket device is expected to be obsolete and replaced every 3 years, the battery should last at least that long. The manufacturers don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/14 "2022-01-03T02:11:54Z")
Apple has drastically improved battery life in their latest iPhones and MacBooks. Not by any big improvement in battery technology, but by improvements in processors. The new MacBooks with the M1 processor will go all day on a charge. My Iphone 13, still has 80+% charge at the end of a typical day. Much of this is attributable to more efficient CPUs. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/15 "2022-01-03T02:23:21Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If all you wanted to do with your phone was make phone calls (imagine that!), the battery would last a lot longer. Indeed. If I leave my phone on idle all day (not doing anything but the necessary pinging of the towers), I consume something like 3% of my battery capacity a day. Actually talking on the phone is a bit more, but only a bit. It’s things that use the screen that eat the joules. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/16 "2022-01-03T02:38:00Z")
> [@Tabco](#): > > I remember my Motorola Razr flip phone going several days on a single charge One model had 7 hours talk time, 280 hours stand-by time. > **[Motorola RAZR V3 - Full phone specifications](https://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_razr_v3-853.php)** > > Motorola RAZR V3 phone. Announced Q3 2004. Features 2.2″ display, 680 mAh battery, 5 MB storage. The Galaxy S4 had 17 hours talk time, 370 hours stand-by time. > **[Samsung I9500 Galaxy S4 - Full phone specifications](https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9500_galaxy_s4-5125.php)** > > Samsung I9500 Galaxy S4 Android smartphone. Announced Mar 2013. Features 5.0″ display, Exynos 5410 Octa chipset, 13 MP primary camera, 2 MP front camera, 2600 mAh battery, 64 GB storage, 2 GB RAM, Corning Gorilla Glass 3. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/17 "2022-01-03T02:48:02Z")
Also, another thing that has improved is charging time. As in a 4000 mAh battery from 0% to 100% in 18 minutes. 120 watt charging is a feature of only a few high-end phones, but it will trickle down. People are going to be less worried about battery capacity if they can recharge the whole thing during a vape break. > **[Fastest charging phones in 2023](https://www.phonearena.com/news/Phones-fast-charging-speeds-comparison_id125026)** > > Which are the fastest charging phones in 2023? We look at all the fast charging tech used and how it differs between phone makers... ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/18 "2022-01-03T05:10:35Z")
I recall the first (flip?) phones that could play MP3’s, the comments in the reviews were “what phone company wants you to drain your battery listening to music when you could be making calls and generating revenue for them?” The worry was a battery could not play MP3’s and drive headphones for more than a few hours, and them people would not be live to receive or make calls. Another factor I recall reading - the makeup of cellphone batteries was aimed at charge density over lifetime, since most phones are obsolete in 3 to 5 years and the goal is a powerful, small, light phone. Whereas, nobody wants a car where the batteries are dead in 3 to 5 years (or even half of original capacity), so EV batteries prioritize lifespan over energy density. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Also, another thing that has improved is charging time. As in a 4000 mAh battery from 0% to 100% in 18 minutes. 120 watt charging is a feature of only a few high-end phones, but it will trickle down. People are going to be less worried about battery capacity if they can recharge the whole thing during a vape break. One of Tesla’s innovations was the “tabless” battery, actually an all-tab battery. A battery cell was made with a roll-up of anode and cathode, with tabs sticking out of the rolled material every so often. (Positive one end, negative the other). It was an incredibly simple idea - instead of, say, a tab every inch or so along the metal foil, they made the whole side of the strip be tabs. that way, instead of charge current entering the battery proper every inch or so, it entered along the entire length of the battery roll, eliminating a current bottleneck that could generate heat and failure during very fast charging. Seems so simple when you see what they did, but should safely increase charge rates. . ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/19 "2022-01-03T14:17:45Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The first EVs from traditional automakers just stuffed batteries wherever they could into their existing cars. My grandmother has a Ford Focus EV, which gets a whopping 70 mi (not really–more like 50 mi) range by filling the trunk with cells. It’s a stupid design driven by Ford doing the absolute bare minimum needed to meet California EV mandates at the time (they’ve gotten better with the Mach E and F-150 Lightning). The other part of that is modern electric cars have been specifically built to be electric cars, with lighter materials, different powertrain designs, etc… that save energy/enhance performance in small ways, as well as make having more batteries more convenient. Like not having ONE engine and transmission, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093/20 "2022-01-04T01:50:05Z")
I’m going to guess, then, that I began using my smartphone for a lot of additional things I never used the Razr for. If I wasn’t talking or multi-tap texting on it, it wasn’t getting used. The smartphone, meanwhile, was probably getting used to check emails, websites, apps, play music, and who knows what else. That’s probably why I thought I was seeing poorer battery life. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battery-life-much-improved-for-cars-but-not-for-phones-and-laptops-why/957093.md?page=2)