# "Battle-Hardened" Cartoon -- Offensive?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766 "2006-02-03T01:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/41 "2006-02-03T19:48:09Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > As to the Joint Chiefs… the rule is, when a government employee speaks or writes a letter or gives an opinion, they are NOT to use their title, job description or office in a way that would give any appearance of representing the official government stance. In writing that letter to the newspaper AS the joint chiefs of staff, all those generals and admirals broke that rule. They could be disciplined for it. Unless, of course, the letter does present the official government stance. Perhaps they ran it past one of their bosses, either Dubya or Rummy, before sticking a 39c stamp on the letter and taking it down to the post office. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/42 "2006-02-03T20:12:31Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I caught this part of O’Reilly last night as well. > > There was also a vet, who had lost parts of his legs from action in Iraq, and even though Bill tried hard to get the guy to condemn the cartoon, he wouldn’t do it. He said he thought it was a little harsh but didn’t mind that it was published. > > There is a better version of this cartoon. I’ve looked for the image online but can’t find it. > > Ralph Steadman did a cartoon called “The High Price of Meat”. I think it makes the point better and it is far more graphic than the rather sterile Battle Hardened. Thanks, I missed that part. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/43 "2006-02-03T22:09:19Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Do you know for certain that they do not do this? > > Cite? After having read about the shabby treatment (from just about ANY veterans advocacy website out there), I can only figure they were too busy writing letters to the editor. Any cites explaining or excusing their apparent lack of interest??? Hmmm? ---
**Author:** ![ozymango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7cd45c/32.png) [@ozymango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ozymango)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/44 "2006-02-03T23:39:46Z")
Actually, I’d like to think that the Joint Chiefs of Staff have had it with Rumsfeld, and they were compelled to send a letter to the editors just to make sure more and more people saw this editorial cartoon. I mean, what were they hoping to accomplish by responding? “If we show that we’re all upset, it will make us look good”? Frankly I wouldn’t have even seen this cartoon if they hadn’t made such a big stink about it. Thing is, it doesn’t matter if people think it’s offensive. That doesn’t change the right of the artist (and the newspaper) to publish. So getting your knickers in a twist accomplishes absolutely nothing. And if you’ve got time to get pissy about this cartoon, you’ve damn well got time to be doing something more productive with your life. Especially if your overarching concern is, respect for and the helping of soldiers. You take offense at this cartoon, then go to your local VA hospital and I can guarantee you, the conditions of too many wounded vets is beyond shameful. If you wanna get upset about anything, get upset about that. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/45 "2006-02-04T01:08:31Z")
Just to avoid a pissing contest over the JCS, Mr. Moto, let’s assume we agree on certain things. Soldiers fight because they are ordered to, not because they like it. The average guy does not get to decide the strategy or policy. He just follows orders and hopes for the best. In return, they have a right to be treated a certain way. They deserve competent leadership. They deserve the truth. They have a right to get the best medical care that exists, courtesy of Uncle Sam. They have a right to have their interests looked after by the higher-ups. They deserve a decent burial, if it comes to that. But most of all, they deserve some respect from the people who sent them “over there”. I know you will agree with the above. But, what do we have instead? A government that views them as commodities to be used up and tossed aside (fungible). A government that sent them in without armor and equipment (the army you have…) A government that is steadily eroding their benefits and VA entitlements - including a new push to increase their “co-payments”. They have to wait months, just to see a doctor apparently. They come home to bankruptcy, collection agencies and eviction notices. Some wind up on the street, homeless. That’s fucked up. Where’s the decency? Where’s the respect? Where’s the troop support we keep hearing about? These questions are the ones this cartoon brings to my mind and they are important questions. Lastly, there is talk that the cartoonist and the “usual suspects” are using them as pawns in a political game. How is it that this is always OK when Bush does it, as with his hilarious performance last time he had a “talk with the troops” and couldn’t even follow his own script, or during the SOTU and other “speeches” when he carted out the families of various soldiers for his obscene dog and pony shows? The government keeps saying support the troops. I want to know just when are they going to do so? ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/46 "2006-02-04T01:40:18Z")
Verdict: Not offensive except to those who feel a desperate desire to send kids someplace to get maimed for no apparent purpose (and who will gladly use disabled vets in photo ops when it serves their purpose) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/47 "2006-02-04T01:46:11Z")
Actually, **bizz** , I’ve been opposed to the Iraq war from the beginning, but as I said back in post #4, I didn’t like that cartoon. I see and sympathize with the basic point the cartoonist was trying to make, and I wouldn’t boycott the newspaper or try to get the cartoon suppressed, but personally I still found it rather oogy. (Re-reading my post #4 renewed my curiosity as to why the ex-gerneral interviewed on The O’Reilly Factor thought the cartoon was comparable to Nazi propaganda. Anybody manage to figure that one out yet?) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/48 "2006-02-04T01:54:07Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > (Re-reading my post #4 renewed my curiosity as to why the ex-gerneral interviewed on The O’Reilly Factor thought the cartoon was comparable to Nazi propaganda. Anybody manage to figure that one out yet?) Freudian projection ? The only thing even vaguely Nazilike in this is the whole “you must not question the Leader !” attitude from the critics. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/49 "2006-02-04T02:45:19Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > ``` > Just more of the truth-twisting and rhetorical horseshit that we have come to love from Bill O'Reilly and his pals. Why is anyone surprised at this? > > ``` I’m no fan of O’Reilly, and I know it’s popular to bash him on this board, but you should be aware that Chris Matthews said pretty much the same thing on Harbball today. Does that surprise you, or is CM one of O’Reilly’s “pals”? He wasn’t hysterical about it, but he made it very clear that he thought the cartoon was tasteless and shouldn’t have been run. CM has made a point to visit with wounded vets at Walter Reed Hospital, and seemed to think it was insulting to them. As to the OP, both Mattehws and O’Reilly seem to gloss over the point that the guy in the cartoon was not “a vet”, but “the army”. The patient chart doesn’t say “Private So-and-so”, it says “U.S. Army”. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/50 "2006-02-04T05:37:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > (Re-reading my post #4 renewed my curiosity as to why the ex-gerneral interviewed on The O’Reilly Factor thought the cartoon was comparable to Nazi propaganda. Anybody manage to figure that one out yet?) As I recall, he said that he had done research into Nazi propoganda of the '30s, and that this cartoon reminded him of Nazi caricatures of Jews and blacks and other non-Aryan types. He said this twice. As I write that it strikes me again as such an odd comparison that I’m wondering if I’m remembering it incorrectly. But I’m almost certain of it – maybe someone else who saw it can confirm or deny. I think his point was that the cartoon’s supposed dehumanization of the soldier was Nazi-like…(?) ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/51 "2006-02-04T13:20:25Z")
What happened is, they have people who look for ways to deflect blame and distract people from the real issues, to keep people focused on hating critics of the war and the president, and they have tools in the media who happily play along. Someone somewhere coached Rummy on attacking Tom Toles and calling him a Nazi, because the problems in America under the Bush presidency are clearly due to strident cartoonists and not at all to the mismanagement and scandals of the Bush administration. Knowing that people might not understand why they ought to be outraged over the cartoon, it was necessary to pull triggers like “this is Nazi propoganda.” ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766/52 "2006-02-05T17:14:23Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Unless, of course, the letter does present the official government stance. Perhaps they ran it past one of their bosses, either Dubya or Rummy, before sticking a 39c stamp on the letter and taking it down to the post office. Why should there be and “official government stance” on a political cartoon? “The government” is in theory everyone and as can be seen there are different opinions making a single “government stance” a contradiction. There can certainly be official stances of a particular political party and point of view and that seems to be what the JCS has expressed here and improperly so in my opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hardened-cartoon-offensive/342766.md?page=2)