# Battle Hymn of the Republic-Hymn or Patriotic Allegory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704 "2011-10-15T02:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/1 "2011-10-15T02:36:34Z")
Inspired by this: [http://erfm.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/why-i-dont-sing-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/](http://erfm.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/why-i-dont-sing-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/) In your opinion is the “Battle Hymn of the Republic” meant to be a religious hymn or was it meant to be a patriotic song for the Union in the Civil War using an extended metaphor of events in the Gospel? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/2 "2011-10-15T02:43:20Z")
It was meant to be a patriotic song for the Union, based upon the earlier “John Brown’s Body,” which is based upon a religious hymn. Stowe was challenged to write better lyrics, and clearly used religious imagery. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/3 "2011-10-15T03:35:00Z")
It’s a patriotic hymn. It’s both, clearly and directly, with no allegory needed. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/4 "2011-10-15T03:54:31Z")
The [wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic#Biblical_references) reveals some specific Biblical allusions. For instance: > [@](#): > > The first verse contains the images of treading out a winepress and a “terrible swift sword.” These two images appear in both the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Revelation. Isaiah 27:1 (KJV) states, “In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent,” and Isaiah 63:3 states, “I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury.” Revelation 14:19 describes an angel casting grapes into “the great winepress of the wrath of God” (14:19), and Revelation 19:15 describes the Word of God who wields “a sharp sword” and “treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/5 "2011-10-15T04:06:08Z")
It’s a patriotic song with heavy religious overtones. The two (hymns and patriotic songs) really aren’t mutually exclusive, but in this case I think it’s somewhat more about war than it is about religion. The basic message is “We’ll win this war because God is on our side.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/6 "2011-10-15T06:37:17Z")
Right. It’s saying that the US Army, in fighting the war, is doing God’s work. The troops are a holy army and God is with them: > [@](#): > > I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps, > They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps; The soldiers are continuing Jesus’s work, and acting in emulation of him. > [@](#): > > As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free, and in fighting the war, they’re hastening the day that Jesus will come back in glory. > [@](#): > > He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave, > He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave, > So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave, ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/7 "2011-10-15T06:42:24Z")
Whatever the words, the music is stirring. You will notice that simply humming or whistling this tune evokes a sense of purpose from it’s plodding cadence. It seems to have a magical quality to raise the head of the weary and focus the listener’s intent. It was often suggested as the national anthem, but perhaps found to be devisive or overly militant. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/8 "2011-10-15T06:50:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Whatever the words, the music is stirring. You will notice that simply humming or whistling this tune evokes a sense of purpose from it’s plodding cadence. It seems to have a magical quality to raise the head of the weary and focus the listener’s intent. It was often suggested as the national anthem, but perhaps found to be devisive or overly militant. I think that is the basic quality of a ‘march’, which BHotR is. Like the theme to Superman or Indiana Jones, both marches, both will evoke a sense of purpose and forward movement. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/9 "2011-10-15T08:00:25Z")
Everything the article says is technically correct. And I have no problem enthusiastically singing it in church. It can be debated how wisely & morally the Civil War was fought by both sides, but bringing an end to slavery was a righteous cause. I am greatly suspicious of these Reformed Christians who have some nostalgia for an imagined antebellum Calvinistic idyllic South vs a materialistic Unitarian North. And it’s a cause for debate in U.S. Reformed circles also. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/10 "2011-10-15T12:47:34Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I think that is the basic quality of a ‘march’, which BHotR is. Like the theme to Superman or Indiana Jones, both marches, both will evoke a sense of purpose and forward movement. I don’t think it is. Not all marches have that triplet eighth-quarter feel throughout the melody. A lot of them need the drums to feel like a march. Those you mention are good, however. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/11 "2011-10-15T15:51:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Whatever the words, the music is stirring. True. It’s just that the lyrics have always been too Carrie Nation for me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/12 "2011-10-15T18:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that is the basic quality of a ‘march’, which BHotR is. That’s what all marches strive to do, but Battle Hymn of the Republic does a very good job of it. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-hymn-of-the-republic-hymn-or-patriotic-allegory/599704/13 "2011-10-16T00:13:43Z")
“In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea” always makes me think of that bit at the end of _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_.