# Battle of the Asian Titans: India vs. China in conventional war **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258 "2010-06-15T03:54:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_Wikipedia_Cites)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/1 "2010-06-15T03:54:08Z")
Years from now, after making peace with Pakistan, India aims at possible territorial expansion. China thinks the same. Supposing India and China come to blows over a territorial dispute. The US, Russia, and Pakistan declare neutrality. Supposing only conventional weapons are used; no NBC (Nukes, Bio, or Chemical) are available or exist in this magical world, having been completely 100% removed by the United Nations, and manufacture is impossible. How is this gonna turn out between the billion-man powers? Should US students be learning Wu or Tegulu? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/2 "2010-06-15T04:04:54Z")
Aside from possibly bombing the crap out of each other or fighting essentially meaningless naval or air to air battles, they wouldn’t really be able to come to grips with each other in a conventional battle. So, assuming they aren’t crazy, they would perhaps fight a couple of small scale ground clashes and possibly some nasty air to air and naval engagements, then come to terms. It would be a draw. -XT ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/3 "2010-06-15T04:09:30Z")
uh, china would wreck india. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/4 "2010-06-15T04:12:40Z")
My vote is for China. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/5 "2010-06-15T04:17:21Z")
My vote is to sell ammo to both sides, and erase our national debt in about a week. That said, I think it might be closer than some might think. India’s probably got a decent technology advantage. If they’re defending, they could make it very expensive for China. If China was willing to take heavy casualties, they could probably take India. Eventually. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/6 "2010-06-15T04:21:30Z")
For an interesting take on this sort of a concept- there’s the _Shadows of the Hedgemon_ series to look at by Orson Scott Card- basically a continuation of the “Ender’s Shadow”/Bean’s Quartet series of books and one of the minor background points that’s simmering throughout is China vs. India. I thought it was an interesting read at least just for that part alone, and no nukes (for the most part) were used to fulfill your conditions, though true neutrality wasn’t quite maintained… worth a read if you want to check out how OSC visualized this battle. I could easily see India getting Aid from other nations if it was the defensive player in this battle, but with the whole “No one else gets involved” clause- I think China would win, as India itself would be rife with internal conflicts and politics on going to war if it was the aggressor, while I’d see China as being more able to control its own people and convincing them war was the right action. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/7 "2010-06-15T04:23:03Z")
Um - China and India did fight a border war back in the seventies, if memory serves. China won. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/8 "2010-06-15T04:53:40Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Um - China and India did fight a border war back in the seventies, if memory serves. China won. [1962](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War). It was a bit of a debacle and caused a major shakeup and reorganization of the Indian military in its aftermath. In particular the creation of a number of “mountain” divisions equipped and acclimated for combat on the Tibetan border. As **xtisme** said the terrain on the order is such that we would be unlikely to see truly massive engagements. It would almost certainly be another border dustup like the first and I’d expect India to perform much better than in '62. Beyond that, hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/9 "2010-06-15T05:03:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > If China was willing to take heavy casualties When has China ever _not_ been willing to take heavy casualties? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/10 "2010-06-15T05:18:34Z")
I’ll add that IMO it should be effectively impossible for either state to actually conquer the other, if that was what was being asked. China is capable of actually overrunning Mongolia if they so desired, India could probably steamroll Nepal. But neither is capable of mounting a massive conquest invasion across the Himalayas and subduing a nation of a billion plus. No one could. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/11 "2010-06-15T05:19:03Z")
ESPN would be the winner. There is no way they can get their main armies at each other, so it would devolve into a few border clashes in the mountain. Probably broadcast on The Ocho. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/12 "2010-06-15T05:37:23Z")
I don’t usually chime in on these military speculation threads, but it seems to me that **xtisme** and **Tamerlane** are clearly right that the geography just is not right for a large-scale conventional war. Of course, if the hypothetical situation allowed them to go nuclear, or otherwise “unconventional” (and in reality, why wouldn’t they?) all bets would be off. But the real wild card is that this is envisaged as happening quite a few years in the future, and the way the two countries are likely to develop economically and politically. If they went to all out war _at the minute_, then I imagine that China would have the edge based on sheer size (of both economy and population), even though India probably has somewhat more advanced technology, and a better educated (and probably proportionately larger) elite. Of course, the same applies _a fortiori_ if China’s economy continues to grow at its recent rate. However, that does not really seem likely to be the case for very much longer, and I can see a very real possibility that China might dissolve into political chaos or even civil war before very long. It won’t happen tomorrow, but I really doubt that the Communist Party can continue to keep the lid on such a dynamically growing economy and culture (which shows almost no vestiges of actual communism, apart from the authoritarian system of government) for much longer. They won’t relinquish power without a fight however, so a fight there will be, and the country as a whole will be enormously weakened. India, on the other hand, seems to have a much better chance of keeping politically stable, and continuing to grow its economy steadily. It is _en route_ to becoming a very powerful country indeed in a few decades time. Of course, if China eventually emerges as a stable, unified democracy, then further on down the road they will eventually be able to dominate India through sheer size once again. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/13 "2010-06-15T05:39:47Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > But neither is capable of mounting a massive conquest invasion across the Himalayas and subduing a nation of a billion plus. No one could. Well, Britain kept India quite well subdued for some time, and from half a world away. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/14 "2010-06-15T05:40:32Z")
Curious why a poster gives a technologi cal advantage to India? There were bordet skirmishes between the two in the late 1980’s. To really take on India, China would want to go through Burma first and have a seriously and probably inconcieveably long supply line. China has the numerical advantage and would be willing to throw tens if not a hundred million cannon fodder into the fight. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/15 "2010-06-15T05:59:13Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Curious why a poster gives a technologi cal advantage to India? I am quite prepared to be told I am wrong about that. It was just an aside, anyway, but my impression is that India’s scientific and technological elite is probably better integrated into the worldwide scientific networks than is China’s (for political reasons). China, due to its size, its booming economy and its political structure, is better placed at the moment to throw large amounts of resources into prestige projects like space exploration, and perhaps high-tech weaponry too, but I suspect India still has more scientific and technological strength in depth. I may be wrong though. I make no claims to be an expert on this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/16 "2010-06-15T06:09:31Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > But neither is capable of mounting a massive conquest invasion across the Himalayas and subduing a nation of a billion plus. No one could. Just nuke the hell out of the place first. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/17 "2010-06-15T06:12:59Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > China has the numerical advantage and would be willing to throw tens if not a hundred million cannon fodder into the fight. So can India. In fact, such a war could benefit both sides by bleeding off excess male population. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/18 "2010-06-15T07:03:09Z")
Looking at the '62 war isn’t going to tell you much, since both millitaries have changed significantly since then. I doubt the Chinese could maintain a ground push into India without achieving air superiority, and IMO, the odds of the Chinese being able to achieve air superiority over Indian territory are pretty small. The problem for India, though, is that a significant portion of its manufacturing and agricultural production is in North India, which makes the Indian economy vulnerable to Chinese air attack even in the absence of Chinese air superiority. The Chinese don’t have this problem, because even if India were somehow able to achieve air superiority over Tibet, that’s not going to make a dent in Chinese manufacturing or agricultural production. A Chinese push through Burma, though, is outside the scenario presented by the OP, and in the case of such a push, then it becomes plausible that other countries may enter the war or at least implement sanctions, which depending on how the sanctions play out, could hurt either country enough to force a cease-fire. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/19 "2010-06-15T07:10:09Z")
Just to add: I don’t mean to imply that India could make a ground push into Tibet (I doubt they could). There’s a hail-mary possibility of an Indian air thrust into Chinese territory, but even if that scenario did happen, it wouldn’t impact Chinese capability significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258/20 "2010-06-15T09:29:38Z")
> **[List of countries by military expenditures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures)** > > This is a list of countries by military expenditure in a given year. Military expenditure figures are presented in United States dollars based on either constant or current exchange rates. > The first list is based on the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) fact sheet, which includes a list of the world's top 15 military spenders as of 2022, based on current market exchange rates. > The second list is based on the 2022 edition of The Military Balance, published by the Interna... China supposedly is spending about triple the amount that India is. Assuming no major overall differences on how well thats spent and where its going, it suggests China would have a significant material advantage. Otara [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-of-the-asian-titans-india-vs-china-in-conventional-war/543258.md?page=2)