# Battle on the Ice **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 6, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982 "2015-04-06T19:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/1 "2015-04-06T19:36:11Z")
I’d never heard of it until yesterday, its anniversary, but a pretty cool battle. Anyone familiar with it? Anymore info to add beyond Wikipedia? > **[Battle on the Ice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice)** > > Novgorodian victory > Livonian OrderBishopric of DorpatKingdom of Denmark > Novgorod RepublicGrand Duchy of Vladimir > Livonian Rhymed Chronicle: > 20 knights killed > 6 knights captured ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/2 "2015-04-07T12:01:30Z")
The 1938 Eisenstein film featuring it, [Alexander Nevsky](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky_%28film%29), is well worth watching ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/3 "2015-04-07T12:28:26Z")
Prokofiev’s music for it is awesome. Makes me want to go out and hack down an invader with a battleaxe. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/4 "2015-04-07T13:56:37Z")
Way I originally heard about it, the battle was decided when the heavy Teutonic knights charged Nevsky’s defenders across the frozen lake and fell through the ice to a watery grave before the battle even happened - that, in order to provide more dramatic tension, the Eisenstein film had them fall through the ice _after_ the plucky Rus defeated them. Boy was I unhappy to learn later that the “falling through the ice” bit never actually happened at all! It joins Cathrine the Great’s “death by horse” in the category of ‘history as it _should_ have happened, rather than as it did happen’. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/5 "2015-04-07T15:15:01Z")
I didn’t even know about the Northern Crusades until this post, so you have fought ignorance and won! ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/6 "2015-04-07T18:19:45Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > I didn’t even know about the Northern Crusades until this post, so you have fought ignorance and won! I’ve heard argued (though I’m no historian, and can’t really assess the argument myself) that much of the mutual antipathy between Germany and Russia had its seeds in that Northern Crusade. Certainly, the Battle on the Ice and its [sainted hero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky) are a central element of Russian identity. If anyone recalls the opening chapters of Clancy’s Red Storm Rising, the Soviets broadcasting a re-mastered release of Eisenstein’s film was understood by NATO intelligence analysts as a propaganda signal to the Soviet people that soon brave Russians would have to take up the sword to fend of dastardly Teutonic ravagers… just before a KGB false-flag terrorist bombing in the Kremlin kills a Komsomol (Communist Youth) tour group from [Pskov](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pskov)… the city originally captured (in the movie, pillaged) by the crusaders before this battle. Especially since a West German defector was quickly arrested for the bombing. Of course, that story is fiction, by an American… but I suspect the significance of the battle, and the events of the Northern Crusade before it… are still quite strong in the Russian historical psyche. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/7 "2015-04-07T18:40:15Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > If anyone recalls the opening chapters of Clancy’s Red Storm Rising, the Soviets broadcasting a re-mastered release of Eisenstein’s film was understood by NATO intelligence analysts as a propaganda signal to the Soviet people that soon brave I recall two US guys watching the movie, but I do not recall that it was a signal. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/8 "2015-04-07T18:46:12Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > If anyone recalls the opening chapters of Clancy’s Red Storm Rising, the Soviets broadcasting a re-mastered release of Eisenstein’s film was understood by NATO intelligence analysts as a propaganda signal to the Soviet people that soon brave I recall two US guys watching the movie, but I do not recall that it was a signal. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/9 "2015-04-07T20:01:13Z")
There was a Russian TV commercial about 7 years ago that depicted the battle (_slightly fictionalized_). It’s for Хрустеам (Hrusteam) a cracker made by Fritolay. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_PzlQIfqg) Dialogue: Holy shit! There are so many of them! That’s nothing. I will crunch them in a second. It’s pretty crunchy. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/10 "2015-04-07T22:41:27Z")
Produced after the ad exec who’d pitched “Putin on the Ritz” was shot in his apartment building lobby. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/11 "2015-04-07T22:44:12Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Produced after the ad exec who’d pitched “Putin on the Ritz” was shot in his apartment building lobby. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/12 "2015-04-08T03:27:23Z")
I’m more familiar with Prokofiev’s music than the history behind it. I was sure this thread would be about Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/13 "2015-04-08T13:13:52Z")
Thanks to all for the added help. I’m getting ready to purchase _Alexander Nevsky_ from Amazon. Reviews seem to great. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/14 "2016-05-27T18:18:52Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Thanks to all for the added help. I’m getting ready to purchase _Alexander Nevsky_ from Amazon. Reviews seem to great. Watched the other night. Movies made at that time are in general incredibly corny. But at the same time, this film was very prophetic having been made in 1938. Yes, it is Soviet propaganda, but if you get around that, to see the Germans demonized (literally) and the Russian nationalism, it is quite fun. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/15 "2016-05-27T18:26:39Z")
[Prokofiev](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N1L7i7_3wg) wrote the music. I am being redundant. Again. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/16 "2016-05-27T19:22:31Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I suspect the significance of the battle, and the events of the Northern Crusade before it… are still quite strong in the Russian historical psyche. If only as a “pre-echo” of what the Soviet Union went through in WW2 - including having to supply besieged Leningrad across the ice of Lake Ladoga, a different sort of “Battle of the Ice”. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/17 "2016-05-27T19:44:23Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > I didn’t even know about the Northern Crusades until this post, so you have fought ignorance and won! If you’re interested [Erik Christiansen’s](http://www.amazon.com/Northern-Crusades-Second-Eric-Christiansen/dp/0140266534) book is a good introduction to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/18 "2016-05-27T20:03:50Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Watched the other night. Movies made at that time are in general incredibly corny. But at the same time, this film was very prophetic having been made in 1938. Yes, it is Soviet propaganda, but if you get around that, to see the Germans demonized (literally) and the Russian nationalism, it is quite fun. The film had a bit of a roller-coaster ride in Soviet official approval - it was released to great fanfare, but then next year Stalin signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - and the movie was removed from circulation! It came back, with a vengeance, in 1941. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-on-the-ice/716982/19 "2016-05-27T20:12:01Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It came back, with a vengeance, in 1941. No joke.