# Battle ship salvos: all guns or one turret at a time **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 13, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027 "2010-12-13T20:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/1 "2010-12-13T20:21:35Z")
So it’s WW II, and two heavy gunners start \*pounding away at one another. Assuming they were more or less parallel, would they more likely fire the guns on one turret at time, then wait for the results to adjust, or fire all guns on all turrets and wait? Possibly it might be different if they were firing upon a civilian ship as opposed to another warship? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/2 "2010-12-13T21:11:09Z")
It depends. A captain would often fire one turret a couple times to establish range and then open up with all the big guns to shower the target. This would proceed until shots were observed to be off target again and then they’d go back to range finding shots. This is if only the big guns are in range. If they’re close enough, another fire director would be aiming the smaller guns in a similar system. Some fire control systems like on the Iowas kept the guns on target (or what the aiming system calculated was on target) continously, so each turret fired as quickly as possible without regard to the others. [Here’s an article on the Ford Mk 1 fire control system.](http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-056.htm) Here’s the relevant section: \*As the FC Director continually inputs bearing and range information into the Mark 1 computer, the computer is continuously producing an output to position the guns to a position that will hit the target. So if the target is stationary, accurate gun fire can be done, or commence, at any time because the computer does not have to predict a future position of the target. The FC solution is instantaneous, with a stationary target. If the target is moving, it will take the computer a maximum of 30 seconds, to predict the course and speed of the target, from the time, or moment of target acquisition. If the target changes course or speed, it will take the computer only a few seconds to come to a perfect solution for the new course and speed, but not an entire 30 seconds, as it needs for a new target solution. \* ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/3 "2010-12-13T21:48:16Z")
I know I would not want to be down range of [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7H3cfZXoZE&feature=related) … Or this - [Schwerer Gustav](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oLC9XtnVJI&feature=related) even though it is movie footage played for comedy, there were some massive guns being built all over. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/4 "2010-12-13T22:20:16Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I know I would not want to be down range of [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7H3cfZXoZE&feature=related) .. One of the Bismark survivors said that the sound of the shells passing overhead from Hood and Prince of Wales “ripped a scream from your lungs.” ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/5 "2010-12-14T04:26:14Z")
Only a few shots would be fired first to get the range. Once range is established the order to fire for effect would be given. that means keep firing as fast as possable to make as many hits as possable. If the range is close then it could start out fast. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/6 "2010-12-15T16:42:20Z")
At _some_ point in the development of fire-control technology, long range fire would be “all big guns at once” because the fire director would wait until the ship had reached a specific point of equilibrium in its rise and fall from the ocean’s swells, and you want all the shells to leave at that instant in time, before the ship moves out of the position used to calculate the fire control solution. I don’t know if they overcame that eventually, and if so, when. Close range fire is more like a bar fight. The shorter flight time means that initial deviations won’t make as big a difference, and one might prefer to fire everything as fast as possible since the enemy will probably soon get hits on you and start to degrade your military effectiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/7 "2010-12-15T17:14:31Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > At _some_ point in the development of fire-control technology, long range fire would be “all big guns at once” because the fire director would wait until the ship had reached a specific point of equilibrium in its rise and fall from the ocean’s swells, and you want all the shells to leave at that instant in time, before the ship moves out of the position used to calculate the fire control solution. > > **I don’t know if they overcame that eventually, and if so, when.** > > Close range fire is more like a bar fight. The shorter flight time means that initial deviations won’t make as big a difference, and one might prefer to fire everything as fast as possible since the enemy will probably soon get hits on you and start to degrade your military effectiveness. Emphasis mine. I believe it was between the World Wars that navies perfected gun stabilization systems that kept the gun at the proper angle throughout it’s roll. I believe I read that in one of these two books: _Dreadnought Gunnery and the Battle of Jutland: The Question of Fire Control_ by John Brooks 2006 _Naval Firepower: Battleship Guns and Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era_ by Norman Friedman 2008 I read them. That doesn’t mean I’m remembering it right, though. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/8 "2010-12-15T18:42:12Z")
“So it’s WW II, and two heavy gunners start \*pounding away at one another.” If one considers the “heavy gunners” the U. S. Iowa Class battleships, the Yamato & Musashi and the Bismark & Tirpitz, it interesting to note none of them ever faced any of the others in battle. Also interesting is that just their existence had a profound impact on strategy (especially in the case of Atrlantic shipping and the Bismark & Tirpitz), but was very short-lived. All were impressive, but the aircraft carrier rendered them all obsolete. Those ships have to be the most beautiful ever built. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/9 "2010-12-15T19:08:14Z")
Well, there were older heavy hitters like the 14-inch armed BBs like the _IJN Kirishima_, _Yamashira_ and _Fuso_. \*Kirishima \*took on the \*USS S. Dakota \*and _USS Washington_ (which themselves were older classes of ships than the Iowas). The _S. Dakota_ didn’t get to do much but the _Washington_ put a hurtin’ on the _Kirishima_. She had to be scuttled the next day. _Yamashira_ and _Fuso_ were sunk at Surigao Straight by the older battleships of the USN 7th Fleet (but destroyers had already hit them with torpedos, so it wasn’t just a big-gun slug-fest). ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/10 "2010-12-15T19:32:54Z")
Gneisenau and Scharnhorst ran into the Renown in foul weather, traded shots, and skee-daddled. Bismark slugged it out with King George V and Rodney. (Bismark could only steam in circles, and was sunk.) Bismark exchanged fire with Hood and Prince of Wales. (Hood sunk.) The battlecruiser Scharnhorst was sunk by the Duke of York. The Italian BB Vittorio Venetto was heavily damaged by the Warspite, Valiant, and Barham. [Battle of Cape Matapan - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Matapan) Another Italian v. Commonwealth battle was a draw: [Battle of Calabria - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Calabria) In general, battleship gunners tended to fire the entire battery at a low rate of fire during the spotting stages. Once they figured they had the range (or rate of change of range), they switched to a higher rate of fire. At long ranges, it’s tough to spot the fall of shot, and/or accurately tell whose splashes belonged to who. (Some navies used different color dyes on different ships in the division to color their splashes in order to deal with this.) > [@wiki](#): > > With her guns suddenly silenced during the turn, the rangefinders on Malaya discovered what the Italians had been intending to avoid, that her rounds were falling 2,700 yards short of Giulio Cesare and they had been watching Warspite’s rounds. ---
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/11 "2010-12-15T19:45:12Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > “So it’s WW II, and two heavy gunners start \*pounding away at one another.” > > If one considers the “heavy gunners” the U. S. Iowa Class battleships, the Yamato & Musashi and the Bismark & Tirpitz, it interesting to note none of them ever faced any of the others in battle. Also interesting is that just their existence had a profound impact on strategy (especially in the case of Atrlantic shipping and the Bismark & Tirpitz), but was very short-lived. All were impressive, but the aircraft carrier rendered them all obsolete. Those ships have to be the most beautiful ever built. I would point out that if Bismark, with 8 15" guns, is a heavy gunner then HMS Rodney with 9 16" guns must be one as well. They did, indeed, face each other. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/12 "2010-12-15T19:53:42Z")
Am I missing something, or was the German battleship not named the [_Bismarck_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck)? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/13 "2010-12-15T20:05:29Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Am I missing something, or was the German battleship not named the [_Bismarck_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck)? Heh. You’re right. I spell like an American. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battle-ship-salvos-all-guns-or-one-turret-at-a-time/564027/14 "2010-12-15T21:30:37Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > So it’s WW II, and two heavy gunners start \*pounding away at one another. Assuming they were more or less parallel But that is an incorrect assumption. They were generally NOT parallel when they met (because, obviously, they were coming from different locations). And there was an advantage to firing first, because the inaccuracy of aiming meant that ranging shots were needed at first. So they generally fired as soon as the first turret got within range. This influenced the design of battleships; most had 2 turrets forward and only 1 on the stern.