# Battles you know are lost but still won't stop fighting **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404 "2006-03-15T02:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/41 "2006-03-15T16:05:09Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Sorry. Proper usage in the south is that “y’all” is plural. I’ve never in my life heard “all y’all” used in actual conversation, and the only time “y’all” is ever used to address a single person is when that person is a stand-in for a group of people, e.g. asking a store clerk “Y’all got any more of these widgets in the back?”. There is some variation in the Southern U.S. regarding use of “y’all”. From my experience, it’s always acceptable as a plural pronoun – “all y’all” is never oblilgatory. I have heard some stock idioms that contain “y’all” and yet can be addressed to a single person (e.g. “Y’all come back!”). Other than usage in idioms, and in situations like the one **yBeayf** gives above, I’d say that the usage of “y’all” as a regular singular pronoun is fairly isolated. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/42 "2006-03-15T16:11:31Z")
> [@Civil Guy](#): > > Having missed preview, I’d like to apologize for the slight hijack. I’m the OP, and I forgive you. Go and sin no more save in units of ten. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/43 "2006-03-15T18:09:16Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Don’t make me do the whole nucular thing again. It’s tiring. > > Seriously, can you come up with a convincing argument for why “nucular” is wrong? This is the first I’ve ever hear of someone defending nucular. The concept intrigues me. I could understand defending someone pronouncing it “nooclar.” That leaves all the letters i nthe right place and just changes pronounciation. But you want us to explain why the gap between the letters C and L in nuclear should not be pronounced “you”? Well, I was in English cyoulass one day and the teacher expyoulained to me that we read the letters that are acyoutually on the page, not the ones that we imagine are on the page. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/44 "2006-03-15T18:35:54Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > This is the first I’ve ever hear of someone defending nucular. The concept intrigues me. I could understand defending someone pronouncing it “nooclar.” That leaves all the letters i nthe right place and just changes pronounciation. But you want us to explain why the gap between the letters C and L in nuclear should not be pronounced “you”? “Nucular” has been defended many times on these boards. See [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321545) for one of the better examples. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/45 "2006-03-15T19:08:16Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Fewer vs. Less. The former refers to countable things; the latter to quantity. > > You have fewer cookies, but less oatmeal. Damn, I was going to say that one. Anytime I hear a supposedly educated person say something like, “The code has less bugs now . . .” I can’t help but think to myself, “Fewer, you idiot, FEWER bugs!” ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/46 "2006-03-15T19:08:24Z")
I’m not usually pendantic about grammar but I hate what I call the “loss of the great american adverb”. It’s not “Fresh Baked”, it should be “Freshly Baked”. It’s not “Fair Priced”, it’s “Fairly Priced”. I practically had a snit fit every time I saw Apple’s “Think Different” advertising campaign materials. It seems to me that that little “ly” is missing more and more. > [@](#): > > \*Lolly Lolly Lolly, get your adverbs here! > Lolly Lolly Lolly, got some adverbs here! > Come on down to Lolly’s, get the adverbs here! > You’re going to need > If you write or read > Or even think about it. > > Lolly Lolly Lolly, get your adverbs here! > Got a lot of Lolly, jolly adverbs here! > Anything you need > And we can make it absolutely clear! > > An adverb is a word… > That modifies a verb… > It modifies an adjective, > Or else another adverb. > And so you see that it’s positively, very, very, necessary.\* ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/47 "2006-03-15T19:47:45Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > This is the first I’ve ever hear of someone defending nucular. The concept intrigues me. I could understand defending someone pronouncing it “nooclar.” That leaves all the letters i nthe right place and just changes pronounciation. But you want us to explain why the gap between the letters C and L in nuclear should not be pronounced “you”? > > Well, I was in English cyoulass one day and the teacher expyoulained to me that we read the letters that are acyoutually on the page, not the ones that we imagine are on the page. The reason I’m defending the pronunciation is that frankly, there’s nothing wrong with it. There’s lots of words out there with two pronunciations - it’s just that “nucular” was latched onto at some point as a mark of poor education. Which it is, actually - but only because the well educated are taught to identify themselves by using the “right” version. The spelling thing doesn’t really work when you start going through the language and noticing how many spellings are completely different from their pronunciations. Spelling - particularly so in English - is to a large degree arbitrary. After all, that’s why they give spelling tests in elementary schools - because you _can’t_ guess the spelling from the pronunciation. Writing arose as a way of committing speech to paper, not the other way around. There’s no logical reason why the spelling of a word _ought_ to dictate its pronunciation. Writing arose far more recently than speech as a way to encode speech on paper - speech isn’t a degraded form of writing. ---
**Author:** ![Wensleydale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@Wensleydale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wensleydale)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/48 "2006-03-15T19:55:57Z")
I dislike the Americanisation of English (as a non-American not living in the USA - no insult intended). One that really annoys me is meter (a unit of measure) instead of meter, but it seems to be creeping more and more into everyday language. Another pet peeve I have to deal with as a teacher is the correct use of lower and upper case letters. I can not count the number of times I have told kids that (insert name of country here) starts with a capital letter, because it is bigger than they are. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/49 "2006-03-15T19:55:57Z")
“Themself.” Not lost yet. Check back in ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Wensleydale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@Wensleydale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wensleydale)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/50 "2006-03-15T19:58:45Z")
:smack: That should read metre instead of meter. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/51 "2006-03-15T20:34:18Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Fewer vs. Less. The former refers to countable things; the latter to quantity. By the way, am I imagining things, or did Target recently change their express checkout lane sign from “10 items or _fewer_” to “10 items or _less_”? ---
**Author:** ![metj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@metj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/metj)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/52 "2006-03-15T21:30:01Z")
> [@Mrs Johnson](#): > > Someone saying “ideal” when he/she means “idea”. > :rolleyes: Other people do this? I thought it was only my husband. It drives me crazy! And I can’t make him stop! ARGHHHH! ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/53 "2006-03-15T22:01:22Z")
“It begs the question” does not mean what most people think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/54 "2006-03-15T22:22:44Z")
Using or omitting apostrophe’s when its not appropriate. 😛 It’s rampant… and I HATE it!!! You even see such mistakes in newspaper articles, public signs, etc. It’s not that hard to learn, people! Arrgghhh! ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/55 "2006-03-15T22:28:46Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > I practically had a snit fit every time I saw Apple’s “Think Different” advertising campaign materials. > > It seems to me that that little “ly” is missing more and more. I have no cite, but I remember reading that the missing “ly” on the “Think Different” campaign was intentional. They did not want you to think differently, but to think of something that was different. As if I said to you “I will be purchasing a car for you. What general color of car should I be thinking of?” And you said “Think red.” Still perhaps not the world’s best grammar, but if it is wrong, it is wrong in a different way than what had offended you. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/56 "2006-03-15T23:07:47Z")
Unequivocably. Nessecary. Starring right now on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/57 "2006-03-15T23:22:25Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > The reason I’m defending the pronunciation is that frankly, there’s nothing wrong with it. There’s lots of words out there with two pronunciations - it’s just that “nucular” was latched onto at some point as a mark of poor education. Which it is, actually - but only because the well educated are taught to identify themselves by using the “right” version… It’s only my personal experience, I have no axe to grind on this one, but the majority of the time I hear someone pronounce it “nyook-you-ler” is the politicians and other assorted personnel in D.C. Mostly highly educated persons. I can not figure this, except it is maybe some kind of “Beltway” in-phrase? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/58 "2006-03-15T23:23:06Z")
advice/advise picks my butt, as does fishes The plural of fish is fish. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/59 "2006-03-15T23:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > The plural of fish is fish. Unless you’re talking about different kinds of fishes, in which case it’s “fishes”. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/60 "2006-03-15T23:47:12Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > I have no cite, but I remember reading that the missing “ly” on the “Think Different” campaign was intentional. They did not want you to think differently, but to think of something that was different. As if I said to you “I will be purchasing a car for you. What general color of car should I be thinking of?” And you said “Think red.” Still perhaps not the world’s best grammar, but if it is wrong, it is wrong in a different way than what had offended you. I’ve heard that too, but I think it’s just Apple apologism. “Think Different” _sounds_ better than “Think Differently” as a bold statement and memorable slogan; that’s why it was used. And the trend of misusing adjectives as adverbs in slogans continues. I ate a banana yesterday with a Chiquita label on it that said “Snack Healthy.” :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404.md?page=4)