# Battles you know are lost but still won't stop fighting **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404 "2006-03-15T02:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/121 "2006-03-17T15:20:36Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > There are an awful lot of people who think this \> \* \< is called an “asterick” or “asterix.” > > It is an **asterisk**. We learned a little poem in school to keep that straight: > [@](#): > > Susie bought a pair of skates > Upon the ice to frisk > Her friends all thought that she was nuts > Her little \* ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/122 "2006-03-17T15:32:24Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > We learned a little poem in school to keep that straight: That’s sort of like: “There was a young lady called Cholmondely Whose face was both shapely and colmondely…” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ChordedZither](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9c0ed/32.png) [@ChordedZither](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChordedZither)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/123 "2006-03-17T15:34:52Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > We learned a little poem in school to keep that straight: I love the picture of some teacher sitting up late at night thinking, “OK, now how can I twist my lesson plan to fit in _this_ little verse?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/124 "2006-03-17T15:52:32Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > It is an asterisk. Whoops. That’s a mite embarrassing in a language pet peeves thread, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/125 "2006-03-17T16:24:03Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > Whoops. That’s a mite embarrassing in a language pet peeves thread, ain’t it? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/126 "2006-03-17T16:49:05Z")
I called an asterisk an asterick. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/127 "2006-03-17T16:53:02Z")
Gotcha ya! I was staring at **fishbicycle** ’s post wondering what was the matter with it… ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/128 "2006-03-17T17:25:14Z")
> [@ChordedZither](#): > > I know this battle is lost, but “I could care less” seems entirely appropriate to me. Think about the tone of voice people use when they say it. It’s not something you can ever say to someone politely. It’s an insult. > > In fact, to me the phrase has always been an obvious instance of sarcasm (again, listen to the tone of voice) and, like most sarcastic comments, deliberately states the opposite of what is meant. > > “I could care less…” > > 1. …but not by much. > 2. …but I’d have to try very hard to do so. > 3. …if I cared at all. > > Now, I will admit that many catch-phrases lose force when they are over-used, and one might argue that the innate sarcasm of this term has been diluted by over-use and by the tendency of people who both hear it and who speak it to treat it as a literal statement. Still, I’m always astounded at how many people regard this as obviously mistaken. Sarcasm is all about intent. Almost no one who uses this phrase actually intends it this way. It seems that this more likely revisionism among people who picked up the habit and don’t like being grammatically incorrect. > [@Excalibre](#): > > It gets worse if you read on - he starts talking about the passive voice - but none of the sentences he’s discussing use it! That term seems to be the most misused grammatical term in existence - people who **right** about it generally seem to think it means “sentences that I personally don’t like”. That sort of thing is covered in high school composition classes - we’re not talking stuff you have to learn in linguistics courses. There’s little excuse for not knowing it, and none at all for writing about it anyway. (bolding mine) I have my own pet peeves as well. > [@aurelian](#): > > I give my students a list of abbreviations that I use to correct their compositions (eg, ADJ means use/make an adjective here). I actually added “GAH!!!” this semester for things like “Juana’s mochila” or “yo realizo” (for darse cuenta de, of course)! > (We’ll have to start another “Dumb things said by students” thread.) Like multiple exclamation points. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Joe: It’s a mute point. > > QS: Sorry, what? > > Joe: Mute point…? > > QS: No, I distictly heard something. Joe: Oh, I mean it is a moot point. flight: You think so? Joe: Oh yeah, it doesn’t matter. flight: Then why did you say it was debatable? Now there is a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/129 "2006-03-17T17:43:04Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > … We are all men;… We are Devo. 😃 Sorry, I digress. My skin crawls when I hear the word **minus** used as a verb. “Well, I’ll just take your $400 credit and _minus_ it from the $500 dollars you owe.” I want to grab them and shake them like a terrier shakes a rat. I know language is fluid and evolves, I accept that, but I’m not a perfect, rational thinking machine and so it bothers me. Heck, I probubly have\* spelling and grammer errors in this very post! \*I originally typed: _I’ve probubly got…_ but the earlier post caused me to think it over and re-write. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/130 "2006-03-17T17:44:37Z")
I’m an insurance agent. It drives me toad-licking psycho when someone calls and says “Can I get a car insurance quota?” ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/131 "2006-03-17T17:46:45Z")
I thought of one I haven’t seen mentioned: “spell checker”. I really don’t need a software tool that will check the integrity of my magical incantations, thank you, what would be useful to me is a “ **spelling** checker” that will tell me if I’ve mispelled any words. Yes, I know, this battle was totally lost years ago. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/132 "2006-03-17T18:03:34Z")
There’s another [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363157) going on that uses “orgasm” as a verb. It’s not a verb, regardless of what Hite did to it all those years ago. Since I didn’t post this to that thread, but am doing it here, I’m maybe not taking the fight to the enemy the way I should. But I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/133 "2006-03-17T18:10:21Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > Heck, I probubly have\* spelling and grammer errors in this very post! Probably so. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/134 "2006-03-17T18:14:11Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > There’s another [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363157) going on that uses “orgasm” as a verb. It’s not a verb, regardless of what Hite did to it all those years ago. Well, it is listed as a verb in the dictionary, as is “suicide”!! Which reminds me of another of my battles: if someone strangled himself to death by hanging, he hanged himself. Not hung, darn it. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/135 "2006-03-17T18:36:10Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Probably so. 🙂 :smack: I believe you, but could you explain? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/136 "2006-03-17T18:54:13Z")
> [@flight](#): > > Sarcasm is all about intent. Almost no one who uses this phrase actually intends it this way. It seems that this more likely revisionism among people who picked up the habit and don’t like being grammatically incorrect. So you know that _secretly_, deep down, they’re violating the grammatical rules in their hearts? :: sigh :: “I could care less” is an idiom, a set phrase. People recite it - as with all idioms - as a single unit, known linguistically as a “lexeme”. There’s no point in criticizing the use of idioms - they’re part of how language works. If you’d ever bothered to listen carefully, you’d notice that the two phrase “I could care less” and “I couldn’t care less” have _vastly_ different intonational patterns, which suggests that they probably _do_ have some story behind them. Stephen Pinker used the intonational patterns to argue that the former is sarcastic, though I’m not positive I agree with him. Either way, you’re vastly oversimplifying something, apparently just so you can have some reason to look down on the way other people talk. > [@](#): > > I have my own pet peeves as well. Yeah, I made a typo. I saw it, but we can’t edit our posts. So sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/137 "2006-03-17T18:55:23Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > There’s another [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363157) going on that uses “orgasm” as a verb. It’s not a verb, regardless of what Hite did to it all those years ago. > > Since I didn’t post this to that thread, but am doing it here, I’m maybe not taking the fight to the enemy the way I should. But I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Why do you think “orgasm” isn’t a verb? Why shouldn’t people use it that way? What’s wrong with doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/138 "2006-03-18T05:08:50Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > She also gave us this gem last semester: “Es la mochila Juana’s\*”. In my Spanish 1 class, my friend with the last name of Jaramillo was called to the board and wrote, “Rocky’s amigo”. Now that’s some down-home American assimilation, there. ---
**Author:** ![blackhobyah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blackhobyah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blackhobyah)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/139 "2006-03-18T11:53:56Z")
“Disinterested” used instead of “uninterested”. Disinterested is a perfectly good word with a perfectly good meaning, as is uninterested. But they don’t mean the same thing. I fear the battle for disinterested is already lost, since the error is common, even in otherwise good writers. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Sable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Martin\_Sable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Sable)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404/140 "2006-03-18T20:09:37Z")
Two years ago, 90 percent of the English-speaking world suddenly started spelling “lose” and “losing” as “loose” and “loosing.” I’m still trying to figure out how and why that happened. It’s driving me crazy. > [@Excalibre](#): > > If you’d ever bothered to listen carefully, you’d notice that the two phrase “I could care less” and “I couldn’t care less” have _vastly_ different intonational patterns, which suggests that they probably _do_ have some story behind them. Stephen Pinker used the intonational patterns to argue that the former is sarcastic, though I’m not positive I agree with him. This is another pet peeve, so I have been listening carefully. But I’m afraid my observations don’t match yours. Nearly everyone I hear saying “I could care less” says it with exactly the same intonation as they would if they were saying “I couldn’t care less.” If I heard more people saying, “I COULD care less,” with an eye-roll and a knowing emphasis on the word “could,” then, yeah, it would definitely be sarcasm. But for most people, I think they just haven’t bothered to think about the literal meaning of what they’re saying. I’d consider “I could care less” a kind of lazy spoken error in the same way that “could of” is a lazy written error. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battles-you-know-are-lost-but-still-wont-stop-fighting/348404.md?page=8)